First confirmed reports were from KBO-TV reproduced below.
Eclipse employees unpaid for last two weeks
The employees of Eclipse Aviation learned this morning that they won’t be receiving their paychecks for the last two weeks of labor. Employees at the Albuquerque manufacturing facility say that they were called into a meeting early this morning and told they would not be receiving paychecks. They were handed a sheet of paper with a toll-free phone number to call to see if they would be paid. No reason, apparently, was given for the action.
Employees leaving the early morning meeting expressed anger, frustration and uncertainty before speeding out of the facility's parking lot. Among the concerns they voiced: What would become of their vacation and what would become of their retirement investments.
Employees were told that they could come and go from the workplace throughout the day but many immediately emptied their desks and left. Some employees attending the meeting say that company officials told them that they stayed up into the early morning hours trying to find a way to assure the workers would be paid but were unable to do so.
Employees were told that they could come and go from the workplace throughout the day but many immediately emptied their desks and left. Some employees attending the meeting say that company officials told them that they stayed up into the early morning hours trying to find a way to assure the workers would be paid but were unable to do so.
A critical vendor to EAC has also confirmed to me they are 'pulling the plug'. The knock on effect of this could lead to an early grounding of the remaining FPJ's, and serious efforts will be required to get them flying again. This is a direct consequence of the high level of integration in the design.
A few interesting reactions to the news over the past few hours.:-
1. Peg is clearly relieved that the end has come. The following hit the inbox from a 'reliable source' today:-
"My partner works at a coffee outlet close to the EAC campus. He knows Peg, who was there this morning laughing up a storm, apparently without a care in the world. She was with a guy, but they were acting like teenagers. Public displays of affection and all that. Really weird for a 'professional' woman in her 40s..."
2. Several reputable journalists would like to talk to those of you affected by these events. If you are prepared to go on the record, send your name, a phone number and what relationship you had with EAC to eclipsecriticng@gmail.com
3. I've been asked the question, several times today, so I want to state that suppliers and customers are welcome to post to the blog or contact me at the above address should you want to establish contact with each other. I've already preformed this service a number of times in the past....
4. All is not lost. I suspect that we will see several operations opening up which will offer services, in a number of ways. The following quote, from William Feather and provided by an 'ex Eclipser' is worth remembering at this time.
"Something that has always puzzled me all my life is why, when I am in special need of help, the good deed is usually done by somebody on whom I have no claim."
Clearly the situation will evolve rapidly. I'll do my best to keep up with events over the next few days.
From: Scott Dannenberg
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 12:21PM
To: _All Enterprise
Subject: Payroll status update
Fellow Eclipsers,
We are extremely happy to report that funding has been obtained that will allow all past due payroll to be in your bank account no later than Tuesday, November 18, 2008. Money may be deposited in your account on Monday. Please continue to check your bank accounts.
For those that get physical checks, please call the payroll department on Monday to arrange to get your check.
We look forward to all of us returning to work on Monday, November 17.
Employee benefits including health and dental remain intact and available.
Management continues to work diligently on a longer term financial solution for our business.
We sincerely apologize for the distress this has caused you. Thank you for your continued support and loyalty.
Executive Management Team
This was forwarded to my in the past hour. Lets hope that it is genuine and the start of a 'good news' story. As I noted yesterday, I expect this situation to change, rapidly, over the next few days. Stay tuned.....
Shane
558 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 558 of 558Despite DayJet being grounded, there's still more SDRs being filed:
FLIGHT FROM SDL TO TUL, DIVERT TO ABQ. AUTOPILOT DISENGAGED VIOLENTLY AT 410 AND YD OFF. REFER TO QRH RESET CB. AUTOPILOT BACK ON AT 390. 40 SECONDS LATER, AUTOPILOT AND YD DISENGAGED. UNABLE TO RESET CB. FL 370 AUTOPILOT BACK ON AND 30 SECONDS LATER DISENGAGED AGAIN. REMAINED OFF THE REST OF THE FLIGHT. YD RECOVERED AT 280. AIRSPEED DISAGREE AT 370. REFERRED TO QRH. ADC SOURCE USED AND STILL GIVING AIRSPEED DISAGREE. DISAPPEARED AT FL250 AND 265 KNOTS. PILOT ELECTED TO DIVERT TO ABQ. AIRCRAFT IS BEING WORKED ON AT FACTORY SERVICE CENTER. UNKNOWN CAUSE AT THIS TIME.
Shane said:
"5. Roel Pieper has been uncovered as a 'man of straw' who can't fund EAC to break even, never mind profitability. This despite the brave words when he invested earlier."
As one tries to make some sense of EAC over time, it is indeed important to keep in mind all the actual business facts still unresolved there; Shane's 8 points are many of the more salient ones. And Dave's, concerning the futility of even $200MM injected into the company, is important to bear in mind as well.
But in addition to these issues,it is important to keep a dividing line between EAC and ETIRC: they are not the same thing.
RP appears to be following a classic pattern of "bridge" financiers who got in over their heads and wind up desperately seeking an exit for themsleves.
The other "fact" that must be kept in kind, and that supports the above, is the "straw" nature of ETIRC itself (just look at the website; that's all ETIRC is; a domain name) and especially, the utter disconnect from reality concerning the "Russia" production and sales plans. That whole issue is strictly for capital raising purposes (no significant capital would ever come into EAC or ETIRC if they actually told the truth about global demand: 50-75 per year, tops). Roel Pieper is not running an aircraft OEM: he is running an investment pitch book.
Lastly, ask yourself (or remind yourself) why even Russia? Where are the US capital markets; investors; suppliers; buyers? There aren't any.
I maintain that the current fleet (about 250 aircraft) is the single biggest going-forward issue EAC has and they must be either scrapped or upgraded; but if finished and left in the market, what net new demand is there for one more E500? The current fleet is not selling--at any price--on the secondary market.
justZIS :
AvioNg1.5 ? the one Half certified ?
once again think of a Half-pregnant woman ... have you ever heard of such ???
Sorry , but if EAC insist on pilot to FOLLOW the BOOK by the word on starting the engine ...
they should do exactly the same about themselves and their Cert. ...
a cert. without the Verbatim going with it,ISN'T a cert. !!
then
are you suggesting that planes have been delivered from N°105 to latest (250?) without being properly working and certified , since it is JUST half certified ???
But in addition to these issues,it is important to keep a dividing line between EAC and ETIRC: they are not the same thing.
RP appears to be following a classic pattern of "bridge" financiers who got in over their heads and wind up desperately seeking an exit for themsleves.
The other "fact" that must be kept in kind, and that supports the above, is the "straw" nature of ETIRC itself (just look at the website; that's all ETIRC is; a domain name) and especially, the utter disconnect from reality concerning the "Russia" production and sales plans. That whole issue is strictly for capital raising purposes (no significant capital would ever come into EAC or ETIRC if they actually told the truth about global demand: 50-75 per year, tops). Roel Pieper is not running an aircraft OEM: he is running an investment pitch book.
Yes, go and look at where the 120 orders are supposedly coming from. DayJet's orders were more serious than those orders, despite MyJet going to MEBA with Palm and saying they want 120...saying you want 120 or 1400, it doesn't mean you can actually pay for them. Eclipse's order book is horrendous including internationally, which Roel said that international orders would be Eclipse's saving grace. Actually it wouldn't surprise me if per capita, there is more foreign-based lawsuits than domestic-based lawsuits.
Deep Blue :
you do not know HOW much you are being right ...
as far as i know and out of Etirc (which CANNOT order Fpj for the exact reason you mentioned )or its Buddies ...
in Russia NOT A SINGLE Fpj has been ordered ...!
go wonder on the need of Ulyanovsk ...;-)
Ken,
are you aware, that because poor management and wrong prices for the FPJ EAC is in troubles.
You got your incomplete a/c for much less then 2.15M$. That was according to your contract (apart from the missing parts) and is ok (if your a/c will be completed).
How do "you"/RP,... convince any investor, to pay this price difference? And there are much bigger problems.
You know in case of BK, this little problem is solved.
I can find the solution in the AFM page 12.5! Great, I look for it!
Julius
P. S.: You call challenge... mabe...
Julius ...
#are you aware, that because poor management and wrong prices for the FPJ EAC is in troubles. #
sorry to tell you this , but you are being naughty with our poor Kenny ...
he didn't know before you told him ...
you should know , mei Freund , that some keep on believing in Santa-Claus for almost all their life ....!
very bad of you ! ;-))
You got your incomplete a/c for much less then 2.15M$
Who is to say that price wont rise even further? I believe the $2.15M figure is based on higher volumes than were achieved, so either Eclipse has to sustainable produce and sell ever more per year or it has to raise prices yet again. Eclipse getting customer lawsuits doesn't exactly encourage there to be high volume sales and not paying vendors limits which vendors that are available and under what terms they will sign. This only further drives up the cost of each unit. If the price goes up much higher, you might as well buy a Mustang or you might simply be priced out of the market. The supposed big deal about the Eclipse was that it was under $1M so way more people could afford to buy a jet, but those days have long since past and good economy or poor economy, there are simply less people who can afford to buy an aircraft (or any item for that matter) when the price nearly triples (and perhaps in the future will quadruple).
Fred,
Dude just stop, it is getting embarassing at this point.
1. Learn to write in English better. (If you want to, I'm just saying)
2. Learn about something you are trying to trash talk, so you don't sound like a buffoon when you do.
3. You sound educated in business so I won't try to take that away from you, but I am pretty sure even if they did receive the financing and started to get in the black, you would still say they have no chance.
4. Learn some software lingo. Just because it is called 1.5 doesn't literally mean it is one and a half. It is just the designation of the newest version. You know what, there will probably be a version 2.0 to integrate the autothrottles or something like that. It doesn't mean it is two of the same product.
5. Learn how to fly, or at least read a book or something. It is pretty fun and worthwile. If you want to come to FL for some Fun in the Sun or Sun N Fun, I will gladly give you your first discovery flight in one of my other airplanes, and before you ask yes I am a CFII too. Flying is such a wonderful experience, and you obviously have some kind of interest in it. It is never too late to start.
Anways have a good time in Europe man.
PS How many of you have acutally sat in or rode in an Eclipse? Heck, how many of you experts have seen one up close? Hell, given the planes track record I highly doubt you will crash and die on a demo flight. I am sure you guys will disagree somehow, someway. Whatever.
Ken,
So the heading of the Shane's entry, "Sadly, it looks like the end" is pretty silly, isn't it?
I was being kind. I used the conditional 'it looks like' as opposed to the definitive 'it is'. You and I both understand how close Chapter 11 is, even if everything goes right over the next few days.
I guess that means you guys will be around a long, long time!
I've said it before and I'll repeat it, again. This blog is probably the final resting place for you and your fellow victims. E5C will die with the company. At least this 'place' is used by suppliers, staff, customers and other interested parties to communicate on EAC related matters.
When the company folds you will need all the help you can get to keep it airworthy. Be careful not to burn too many bridges, in advance.
Shane
PS DID you help Mike with the 'extraction' last week?
AUTOPILOT DISENGAGED VIOLENTLY...
perhaps its confused by ADS-3?
sorry, bad joke
You know what, there will probably be a version 2.0 to integrate the autothrottles or something like that.
If I'm not mistaken, it is Avio NG 2.0 when the full promised functionality is supposed to be delivered.
eclpiserobotiv :
you wrote :
"Anways have a good time in Europe man."
i do not know english , but i feel there is something missing in here , may be we should learn together ?? ;-)
AvioNG 1.5 : while we are at it , may be we should learn to read as well ...
i wrote : Half certified , not because of the number , but because it is NOT FULLY CERTIFIED YET , as there is not the proper verbatim to go with it ...
Nice try , keep going , I wouldn't like to be the only buffoon (in Middle ages , Buffoon were the only ones to say the truth , nothing but the truth and because they were buffoon , anyone disturbed could say "he is crazy = he is a buffoon !" may be you should learn History , as well ...)
ok , but since yesterday i was explaining to Julius some Hebrew : i am going to write to you in this language , but since you find qualities in the Fpj , I have some concerns about your IQ , so i am going to use a transcript version :
"Oulaï ata mevin ivrit , motek ?"
you see , since EAC desperately needs foreigners to survive , may be you should start foreign languages ...
do not believe the ones who may give you money , are not the same ones who are going to play with your "english only , sorry !"
as for learning to fly , i am really sorry to inform you that on this side on ocean , we just discovered Electricity ...
some are crazy enough to say "it might reach Eire before the end of century ..." peoples have really crazy ideas ... ;-))
Ok , i stop kidding ! i am not a pilot myself , but the first time i was in a plane was when i was 3 months old ...
after this my father was crazy about Gliders , and took me many times with ...
i practiced myself very often delta-Wing and parachuting ...
next year , when retired , i feel like learning to fly ...
as for inviting me in a Fpj , i believe the right formula (someone said here that i don't have any manner , so a little bit of decorum ...) : Thank you , but NO thank you !
as you wrote , given the track of the plane , statistics give me a good chance of surviving ...
is that because it is a safe plane ?
or only a statistics effect of its (very) young age ?
time will tell , i wish you many years of safe flying , for myself i am trying to not provoke luck too much ...
I am pretty sure that is correct that is why I mentioned the autothrottles due to that fact that is piece to the puzzle.
Hey fred I offered you a flight in one of my other planes. Usually training begins in a single engine piston aircraft. You can't just jump into jets big guy! By the way you saying it is half certified is not entirely correct, I mean if you wanna get hung up on minute details such as paperwork then be my guest. As for learning another language I know a few others, I just like to follow the KISS theory when posting on mostly English speaking blog. You know Keep it Simple Stupid? Easier for you guys to follow along anyway.
i forgot (sorry)
i am mostly to the piss-out of the business plan ...
never seen something so mad but that manage to keep going for so long ...
Your Fpj may have the qualities you find into it , as a personal owner/pilot , the problem is :
it has NEVER been sold for being of such use ...!
as for any professional use , Even the ones who were using it the most , finally gave-up ... (dayJet)
so you won't push out from my mind this :
Fpj = a plane developed with the money of the peoples it wasn't supposed to serve the best !
i hope in future , this Bizz-plan will be in any serious M.B.A ...
as an example of what is to be avoided !!!
"RP appears to be following a classic pattern of "bridge" financiers who got in over their heads and wind up desperately seeking an exit for themselves.
Could it be that the city of ABQ are the poor dumb bridge financers?
Could it be that the city of ABQ are the poor dumb bridge financers?
If you mean for Eclipse meeting payroll, now that would be something! I thought the ABQ politicians specifically said they wouldn't do an Eclipse bailout, but afterall, if these guys mouths are moving...
sorry !
#I mean if you wanna get hung up on minute details such as paperwork then be my guest #
was it Kenny who was bragging about following what is in the book ?
how are you supposed to do if there is no book ??
convenient to say :
"do as i say , not as i do myself !"
Shane,
It is Chapter 11 or Chapter 7? For Chapter 11, one would need to see the possibility of an ongoing business that can go on if the enterprise is freed from current, crippling obligations. So hypothetically, free EAC from the obligations of its debt, deposit refund requests, overdue supplier payments, refurbishment promises, back rent, etc. Now, freed from all of this, EAC is free to do exactly what? As far as I can see, it is then free to go on about the business of making and selling EA500 jets for $2.3 million (including options) and said jets will be equipped with the new AvioNG, Garmin 400s, FIKI and (let's be optimistic) EASA certification.
For Chapter 11 to proceed, someone will need to inject debtor-in-possession (DIP) financing to pay the suppliers sufficiently to get them back aboard, do some engineering to improve certain shortcomings of design, get the necessary inventory of new parts, and start in manufacturing at the rate that the airplanes can be sold. So the key question is AT WHAT RATE CAN THEY BE SOLD? Some on this blog have suggested zero, but it is a big world and there are surely some few people that would buy one. But is the number high enough that the margin per airplane times the number of units will allow the business to cover its costs?
There would also be a business to upgrade and maintain the current fleet, but anyone interested in doing this does not need to invest the amount of DIP funds needed to really restart the production line.
My guess: Chapter 7, because nobody will sufficiently value the "privilege" of manufacturing the EA500 to invest the DIP financing required. From Chapter 7, however, someone will buy the TC, design and some tooling and equipment sufficient to upgrade and maintain the current fleet and then an active market may be established with these upgraded jets selling for $1.5 to $2.0 m.
So it will be like the Beaver which went out of production but which was supported and where one could buy one refurbished "better than new" (with a turbo prop engine, even), but at prices that would not justify building new ones. Then after many years with declining supply of existing inventory and steady demand the prices have risen to the point that someone will start making them again. Perhaps this could happen to Eclipse after many years, but it seems unlikely presently.
motivforeclipse
your explanation is fine !
nonetheless , there isn't ANY Fpj out there with Fiki + AvioNG 1.5 ...!
and it may happen that they will never get updated
si j'ai tout compris bien sur ?
je pense que c'est vraiment un modèle de travail très compliqué ...!
cela me rappelle Renault : une voiture , mais plein de versions incompatibles entre elles ...
If you mean for Eclipse meeting payroll, now that would be something! I thought the ABQ politicians specifically said they wouldn't do an Eclipse bailout, but afterall, if these guys mouths are moving...
Their mouths looked like they were moving from two different sides.
Bricklinng,
It is Chapter 11 or Chapter 7?
Clearly you've answered your own question, but I thought I should try and add a bit of 'clarity' myself.
I've had several 'reliable sources' provide specific information (phone and/or email) on this subject.
Last week, the split was 60/40 in favor of Chapter 11. Then they failed to make the payroll on time and it went 30/70.
Past 24 hours it's 60/40 again.
I'm in the 'Chapter 11 camp' myself, as I think it's the way forward most likely to retain the highest value for any prospective purchaser.
I think (but don't know) that a lot hangs off the EASA certification. Clearly, EAC think they have this wrapped up, possibly for an announcement very soon. I've done a little checking and remain skeptical.
But they might, just might get that cert, which increases the value of EAC.
Hence my feeling that 'someone' put up the salaries yesterday thinking they would get EASA before the next one fell due.
We shall see....
Shane
BriklinNG and Shane are reasonable about 7 or 11 BK speculation, but in either case, one might ask if any new fresh capital from a relatively rational, disciplined source, would either invest in a very expensive C11 workout (plus millions in fresh capital) or buy the TC and certain parts etc, when the following overwhelming fact remains:
There aren't any customers.
Where are they? Why is the current fleet almost entirely idle?
And cancelled orders/refunds?
And DayJet? Gone. Fractional? None. Corporate fleet orders? None. Military? None.
No one invests in this kind of entangled mess unless there is real demand on the other side. I don't see any beyond what could be possibly satisfied or even saturated, with the current fleet (upgraded for yet more millions and then sold at a huge loss).
Every strategic corner of this box is a dead end.
I think (but don't know) that a lot hangs off the EASA certification
I believe that is a matter of public record that Roel has said Eclipse is putting everything into getting EASA certification and that EASA certification would automatically generate new orders, etc. However, I'm not seeing a way out of this for Eclipse without BK and even post BK, I'm trying to see how they could still stay in the manufacturing business (particularly since any post-BK entity would be competiting with ETIRC's Russian factory, which would only make production more expensive due to lower volumes).
I don't think people fully realize the potential impact the Russian factory could have and how little EASA means to Eclipse, which actually having EASA doesn't do a think for Eclipse because what is covered by EASA is in ETIRC's territory.
With or without BK you're stuck with ETIRC taking away your potential production volume...or ETIRC might sell you their Russian deal as well to make it go away, which is just a white elephant making Eclipse more cost prohibitive. However, lets say you arrange through ETIRC to make the Russians go away and you only have the ABQ factory and you have EASA too, you've still have to go to undo the flawed business model of high volume production and set yourself up at a price point where the manufacturing configuration and sustainable sales volume lets you actually make a few dollars instead of being a money pit.
Eclipse has done terrible damage to their image with both suppliers as well as potential and existing customers. Someone would have to come along that has a very good reputation in order to mend the wounds and restore credibility. People have already gone through that unsuccessfully with Roel who was supposed to do that, so you have to have a company that already has significant assets and a sterling reputation or else you'll just repeat what has already happened before. People would have trust Eclipse or else it doesn't matter what certifications Eclipse has.
No one invests in this kind of entangled mess unless there is real demand on the other side
I think in theory there would be some demand for the aircraft, but simply someone throwing money at Eclipse post-BK wont do it unless they've got the demonstrated finances and reputation as nobody wants another Roel with a paper company behind Eclipse. You need a company with a far better rep and better finances than ETIRC and ETIRC needs to go away. However, if they weren't there before, chances are they wont be here now and at best you'd end up with another Roel.
Dave said:
"Eclipse has done terrible damage to their image with both suppliers as well as potential and existing customers. Someone would have to come along that has a very good reputation in order to mend the wounds and restore credibility. People have already gone through that unsuccessfully with Roel who was supposed to do that, so you have to have a company that already has significant assets and a sterling reputation or else you'll just repeat what has already happened before. People would have trust Eclipse or else it doesn't matter what certifications Eclipse has."
Exactly right.
It is interesting that Pratt/UTC has apparently not stepped up in any "rescue" mode, although in the aerospace industry, it would be very unusual to see the engine OEM do so; PWC will probably write it off and move on with Cessna and EMB.
Ken,
Could you do the following screen shots please:
1/ ADC 1 and ADC 3 ASI at 150
2/ Same in climb
3/ Same in approach config?
Thanks
Why is the current fleet almost entirely idle?
The only flight worth taking is one where there's an interested buyer who wants to fly the thing... otherwise, you just one step closer to AOG... with little to no support...
... and there are no interested buyers, really
dave :
the other day , i was discussing with a colleague a concept :
"contradictory lies"
this seems to be a perfect example ...
to the Official and staff in ABQ , the song is "We will remain truly proud of being in the US!"
to the officials in Russia , the song is "stuff anyone in ABQ , they are not worth a 1/10 of you !"
the problem , the 2 version are conflicting ...
it doesn't take more than 2 brain cells to understand very basic arithmetic :
the plane doesn't sell so even in the best years , may be 50 units
ABQ = officials want their "money worth" so EAC/ABQ need to employ as many workers as it please the local politicians ...
(probably the first "mistake" , and the reason why they got some much in "sweet deals" from GOV. or City ... they only forgot one simple rule : any money given by politicians HAS TO BE PAID BACK XX TIMES after ! in EAC/ABQ it has just meant employing much too much staff ...not because needed , only it pleased locals to see business offering well paid jobs , forgetting said jobs were financed in the first place by Tax-money to the only benefit of local politicians = "he is a good mayor , he created so many well paid jobs ...!")
ULWW = Russians would assume the running of plant (biggest majority of parts in project ) , technically speaking and up until loans are paid back , Etirc would have ONLY a "technical-know-how" role as for anything else ,etirc would be in the "keep-it-shut" role ..
if ABQ is challenging ULWW to produce 100 units (at the best !)
the result is simple to foresee =
ABQ is stuck to play the game with the (very?) few $ they have and all the history-deficit ...and lack of support from local politicians , who took a plunge already with EAC , if there is only a few employee = why a politician would risk his future with such a plague ?
ULWW can very easily lower the price (do not forget:it is STATE Bank behind , profits can remain an exotic word for them !)
they can do exactly "the Chinese model" they produce at a colossal loss (Dumping, USA does the same with Cotton and Africa) , when all competitor have given up , they decide of the new price !!
so whatever is going to follow , ABQ HAS already LOST ALL HOPES !
The chapter 7 / chapter 11 bet is a bet on the bigger fool.
Rational people like Deep blue, Bricklinng and me simple can't believe anybody would be stupid enough to dump any more dough in this pit.
The wedge has until always proven us wrong.
Since there are still Hugo Chavez, Hu Flung Dung (or whatever that North Korean psycho is called) and Paris Hilton out there who have not yet "invested" Ken is probably correct - Eclipse has bright future.
Since when did a company with 1500 employees become too big to fail?
Serial 11 goes cross country from Gainesville today
S/N 11 has been sitting in KGNV for months. It has been listed on sale at Controller since at least May 21. Press claims it was an "early retrofit" craft in his classified listing of this tail.
ATM,
"Why is the current fleet almost entirely idle?"
I've often wondered the same thing about the Wedge's brain.
(Too bad the same can't be said of his mouth...)
------------------------------
Now then, moving along.
Fred,
"yes i don't know how to write , and even less how to read ...not too bad for an illiterate like me .."
Me either, I think words just confuse things. I like lots of pictures- especially color ones!! (that's what's wrong with the blog- too many colorful characters, not enough colorful pictures!)
...I heard Ronald Reagan got bored reading briefing papers, so he asked that they be made into movies. And they were. Really.
Maybe one of these days there will be an Eclipse movie.
I can think of a good title:
APPOCECLIPSE NOW!!
Oh, I bust myself up.
--------------------------------
Speaking of being busted up...
Zed, you are a bad boy!!
"You (Goat, or fill in the blank) truly are a moron. Do you actually have sufficient brain activity to power your entire body? Sorry Shane ... but I think in this case it is a compliment".
I will give you a one-time bad-boy pass, because, regardless of the intended recipient, I busted out laughing.
-----------------------------
Ken,
I have been studying the responses your kind posts elicit. (Not to say they are illicit posts though). I think you were good for about 25 frags per post when they were less frequent. Now, I'm downrating your post-to-frag ratio to 8 to 1. Keep up the good work!
(Except for your uncharacteristically distasteful comment about a good chum above- I believe you probably already regret those, but please- you owe the blog an apology for that).
X,
Mike Press was 'extracting' aircraft from GNV over the weekend.
'Just in case' was the stated reason.
Go figure.
Shane
FreedomsJamtarts said...
Baron95 wrote "It is a poor design to have an airspeed in substantial disagreement with the primary in the main field of view of a pilot".
Just to be accurate, I said that the above is something that you could say. I happen to agree with it, if the disagreement is substantial and it is between the primary and the main cross-reference instrument. I don't think 0.03M is that substantial though.
This horse has been beat to extinction. But there are two approaches when you have 3 independent data sources.
A - Show the same derived data on all primary instruments with the raw data presented in a small format. This can be a voted or average or closest two or any other algorythim.
B - Show the raw data from all three throughout the cockpit in primary/back-up highly visible instruments and/or let the pilot managed the presentation.
I like A, myself. But most designs that have 2 sources on base and 3 as an option will go with B.
Sadly, the FAA also makes it close to impossible to certify option A, and will often required a fourth source, so OEMs just give up and put a totally independent instrument.
Either way, IMHO, the ADC architecture of the Eclipse PROPVIDES THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF REDUNDANCY AND INDEPENDENCE ON ANY CIVIL AVIATION PLANE WITH A GW OF UNDER 6,000lbs (which is the definition of a light twin).
Goat,
Zed has removed 'that' remark at my request. Please avoid further reference to it. Thanks.
Deep Blue, Dave, Freedom etc.
I'm led to believe that the funds injected late last week are in the $5 million range. It's said that they were provided by Roel, Al and the bank(s) in pretty much equal measure.
This sort of money should keep the company going for a few weeks, although the staff at EAC remain doubtful about their next paycheck. It appears that certain, pressing bills also had to be paid. I'm pretty sure that EASA was one of them.
Now the plot thickens.
What many 'Americans' fail to understand is the cost of dealing with the EU. I'm pretty sure by now that the bill from EASA is above a million euros. I'm also easy to convince that the following 'conversation' might have taken place
Roel:-
"When can we expect our EASA cert"
EASAman:-
"I'm afraid I can't comment until your account is settled in full"
Roel:-
"Well, if the bill is paid, can we be certain of getting approval?"
EASAman:-
"It is reasonable to expect a positive outcome"
So, poor old Roel goes back to his BoD and announces that EASA is in the bag. What EASAman meant was that the bill being paid was positive.
For EASA.
We're not fools here in Europe. If you were owed money by an entity with the public difficulties this lot have had, would you not use every lever you had to extract money?
Clearly this last part about EASA is pure speculation. But, given that the amount of cash injected was not worth 'trumpeting' as the much talked about new investment, that Roel has bored us to tears talking about the hundreds of orders to be picked up here in Europe and finally that I've been hearing rumblings that there may indeed be movement on this subject, I think it's reasonable to put the lot together and say 'what if'?
What I BELIEVE is that the EAC certification team have been sold a pup by EASA, who now only want to extract their fees. I suspect that someone at a senior level in EAC is going to be very disappointed shortly when told that the 'Safety Standards Consultative Committee' which meets in EASA HQ, Cologne, Germany on Thursday decides to 'request further information' or asks for a 'special report' on the relevant technical points.
But I could be wrong.
Shane
Did I mention that DayJet filed Chapter 7 on Friday?
Silly me, I forgot...
Shane
What I BELIEVE is that the EAC certification team have been sold a pup by EASA, who now only want to extract their fees. I suspect that someone at a senior level in EAC is going to be very disappointed shortly when told that the 'Safety Standards Consultative Committee' which meets in EASA HQ, Cologne, Germany on Thursday decides to 'request further information' or asks for a 'special report' on the relevant technical points.
But I could be wrong.
Unless the EASA-compliant aircraft require much more than just Avio NG 1.5 approved by the FAA (or are alternatively limited in what they can do - like no FL410, no commercial operations, etc), I can't see how EASA could do anything else. EASA made it clear with their Special Condition and simply putting in Avio NG 1.5 doesn't address all the issues raised.
Even for the sake of argument lets assume that is true and Eclipse gets EASA without requiring a major redesign/retrofit and hundreds of orders do open up...so what? Lets be generous and assume Eclipse gets 300 foreign orders that each put down a 10% deposit for about $65 million, how is Eclipse still not going to be in the same position of spending all that away and just postponing the inevitable (let alone having all that go to paying existing bills)?
dave,
EASA cert
my point of view is:
1 EAC does not need it, unless EAC will sell FPJs to EASA-land
2 ETIRC aviation cannot get the EASA cert by it's own (but only for a lot of time and money with the help of another company(?)), but intends to sell in EASA-land.
If EAC is BK before EASA cert, it's value will increase as there is someone who needs something of EAC.
BTW: If the TC is passed to ETIRC
EAC is history.
Julius
Did I mention that DayJet filed Chapter 7 on Friday?
I'm not seeing DayJet on PACER. What name was it filed under?
I think Peg said EAZA.. not EASA...
it a new certification, revolutionary in fact...
inventied for and by EAC:
Eclipse
Aviation
Zoological
Administration
Its for the non-dinosaurs.... those residing at the zoo... so to speak...
Shane,
Do you know which of the multiple DayJet entities filed for Chap. 7? Could be DayJet Corporation, DayJet Services (most likely), DayJet Leasing, or DayJet Technology.
"Either way, IMHO, the ADC architecture of the Eclipse PROPVIDES THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF REDUNDANCY AND INDEPENDENCE ON ANY CIVIL AVIATION PLANE WITH A GW OF UNDER 6,000lbs (which is the definition of a light twin)."
I'm not sure I understand that. The Cessna 172 and the various Cirri all have fully independent and redundant backup airspeed, altitude, and attitude information.
While the Eclipse has independent attitude reference and air data systems, all displays are handled through a single integrated cockpit display system.
No other modern airplane, from the Skyhawk to the Airbus 380 depend on the primary display system to also act as the backup system.
Most modern jets use a single independent battery powered backup instrument. The Mustang and other G-1000 systems still use old fashioned mechanical backups, but in all cases the backup system displays are totally independent from the primary displays.
This is something over which reasonable people can disagree, but I can't help but feel that it is Eclipse that is out of step on the handling of backup data, not every other manufacturer.
My understanding is that EASA is going to require the separate mechanical backup ADI for the EA-500 even with the triple reference systems.
Do you know which of the multiple DayJet entities filed for Chap. 7? Could be DayJet Corporation, DayJet Services (most likely), DayJet Leasing, or DayJet Technology.
I'm not seeing it under DayJet or Winged Foot. It is possible that although they filed it hasn't been posted on PACER as there is some lag.
My understanding is that EASA is going to require the separate mechanical backup ADI for the EA-500 even with the triple reference systems.
So couldn't that be fixed be replacing Avio with the G-1000? If so, that should've been done anyway.
Everybody talks about replacing Avio with G1000. Do you know how many aircraft systems are dependent on Avio? That does not seem plausible at this point...
Eclipse's Secret Backer Unmasked!
KEN … MEA CULPA
Having rightfully received a Standing 8 Count from Shane, I exercised the appropriate cooling off period, and have returned to formally apologize to you for my assertion yesterday.
An essential trait of a pilot and a professional is to remain true during stress, both the good kind and bad kind. By blasting you over a quibble, I failed to remain true, and failed to maintain the appropriate decorum.
In the years that I have been involved in the Eclipse 500 program we have talked many times, and we will certainly have the opportunity to speak again in the coming months. I extend this olive branch so that our future conversations, on this blog and otherwise, can occur on a professional level.
We agree on many things.
The Eclipse 500 is a great airplane to fly. It is efficient, reliable, and when functioning as designed, predictable. Certainly there is maturation required. Unfortunately it did not occur before delivery.
The people in Albuquerque, Albany, and Gainesville are by and large very nice folks. Their leadership and management skills have certainly been tested, and those that remain are supremely motivated. Using the poker term, they are “all-in” right now.
However, I do plan to send Mike, Peg, and the principal staff a copy of Rosetta Stone - Public Relations Version this Christmas. They certainly need some effort in that department.
So, I will remain fixated on the nuances happening behind the glass, and between the pilot interface and the atmospheric interface. I trust that you will remain fixated on the owner experiences, and the nuances that make your use of the airplane valuable.
As they say in sailing, a rising tide lifts all boats … and we certainly need GA airplanes in the skies these days to ensure that remain accessible when times become more generous. Thanks for doing your part.
Mea culpa!
Zed
Everybody talks about replacing Avio with G1000. Do you know how many aircraft systems are dependent on Avio? That does not seem plausible at this point...
Absolutely, it's stuck with Avio. Besides, G1000 in and of itself has nothing to do with backup instruments or ADC redundancy . A requirement for separate (from Avio) backup instruments would make sense, given that the Eclipse is the only glass panel aircraft that lacks them. AFIK, every G1000 based aircraft has separate backup instruments.
Absolutely, it's stuck with Avio. Besides, G1000 in and of itself has nothing to do with backup instruments or ADC redundancy . A requirement for separate (from Avio) backup instruments would make sense, given that the Eclipse is the only glass panel aircraft that lacks them. AFIK, every G1000 based aircraft has separate backup instruments.
G1000 does have to do with backup instruments because it comes with them. That is why every G1000-based aircraft has separate backup instruments AFAIK.
Dave,
It doesn't "come with them". Each manufacturer puts in the backups they want and that they get certified.
Look here for a picture of TBM G1000 backup instruments. If you look at the Cirrus Design website, you'll see a different set, and again different for the Phenom.
The G1000 itself is the PFD plus MFD combination, plus the various modules specific to each aircraft. One could do a G1000 implementation without backup instruments just like Eclipse did with Avio. The issue boils down to what the manufacturer thinks is a prudent design, and what the certification process requires. I'm not sure, but it could be that the certification for the G1000 requires backup instruments, while obviously this wasn't the case with Avio. I believe they should have been required in the Eclipse, as having all the glass go down is not that remote a possibility. If it all goes black and one is in IMC, it's no longer flyable.
Sorry lads, I should have posted this earlier....
A bankruptcy case concerning the debtor(s) listed below was filed under Chapter 7 of the United States Bankruptcy Code, entered on 11/14/2008 at 2:22 PM and filed on 11/14/2008.
DayJet Leasing, LLC.
3651 FAU Boulevard
Suite 200
Boca Raton, Fl 33431
Tax ID / EIN: 20-5765686
aka
Jetson Systems Corporation
aka
DayJet Technologies, LLC
aka
Wingedfoot Services, LLC
Looks like the whole shooting match to me.
By the way, I have a detailed set of minutes for the final board meeting(s).
All those rumors about DayJet, Lineair and EAC?
Seems there was pretty solid ground underneath them.
Only problem with all this data is what's it doing to our next 'headline post'.
Even more stuff to fry The Wedge with. You know, sometimes, filleting someone with their own words can be soooo enjoyable.
But I have to get this right. After all, I'm only a 'cockroach' and I don't want to miss the opportunity to show The Wedge what a nasty insect I can be.
When I put my mind to it....
Shane
The Creditors List makes interesting reading.
A few names stand out.
Eclipse Aviation Corp / Materials
2503 Clark Carr Loop SE
Albuquerque, NM 87106-5611
and
Eclipse Aviation Corp / Training
2503 Clark Carr Loop SE
Albuquerque, NM 87106-5611
Sounds like the cash strapped EAC is now even more cash strapped....
Heck, even P&W got hit...
Pratt & Whitney Canada Corp / MX Materials
PO Box 360727
Pittsburgh, PA 15251-6727
Pratt & Whitney Canada Corporation
1000 Marie-Victorin
Longueuil, Quebec J4G 1A1
Pratt Whitney Component Solutions Inc
4905 Stariha Dr
Muskegon, MI 49441-5559
I could go on, but the list is HUGE.
Shane
I need a PA.
No, I need a PA, several more email address and a cup of coffee every hour, on the hour.
It's...
Snippet Time
1. It's alleged that Al Mann is the prime mover in keeping the ship afloat. He's not getting much help, and is really struggling to put a rescue package together.
2. Scuttlebut says that Peg has had enough. Can't say I blame her, as I think she's been a bit of a 'patsy' for some of the others. Expect her to resign to 'spend more time with her family' or some such excuse.
3. Mike McConnell is being blamed for starting the real panic last week. He screwed up a 'take the day off' message and turned it into a fully blown 'we can't make payroll' release.
So, it appears that Al is on his own. No money from Roel, nothing from banks or any other outside entity. I admire someone who sticks with the ship, even when it's clearly sinking, so he has my respect.
But the writing is now very clearly on the wall. It spells
B
A
N
K
R
U
P
T
C
Y
in the near future.
That's what I think, anyway.
Shane
Just by BK law it should be very interesting what comes out of the filings. Much disclosure is required for BK filings and if there's no love lost between DayJet and Eclipse, Ed can be even more revealing about Eclipse.
So, it appears that Al is on his own. No money from Roel, nothing from banks or any other outside entity. I admire someone who sticks with the ship, even when it's clearly sinking, so he has my respect.
I nominate him for Edward Smith Award. It is good that he made payroll for Eclipse though.
Mannco's trophy FPJ on desultory flights in October, none yet in November.
Mann has his own Gulf IV tail N1925M (fully blocked on flightaware) so the particular movements of the FPJ are not pertinent to his own whereabouts.
Think about it...
in dire straits, strapped, behind the 8-ball.... and
all Vern could od was sue US... a bunch of bloggers... know why?
He's one smart mther-fkr hombre... and he knew we would make 100% sure the real story (as he knew we were on the ball) would come out...
Smart guy - crafty, bs-artist cmart man...
give him credit... he knew we would be there posting the right stuff all throughout his BS.
Stay tuned...
How on earth did Dayjet lose s much money in such a short period of time?
They claimed to be the best funded aviation start up in recent history...
60 pages of creditors...
I guess someone (a bunch of folks, actually) knew this was a complete farce...
How on earth did Dayjet lose s much money in such a short period of time?
They spent half their operating capital on JETSON before they even launched.
ATM, are you seriously asking or is that a rhetorical question?
In deference to Cardinal Tool, I think we can safely say that despite its' numerous shortcomings, the Eclipse 500 IS the most efficient method for cash destruction ever invented.
Never before in the history of aviation has so little been done by so few with so much.
The Eclipse is like King Midas in reverse.
Not only has it burned up nearly $2B at Eclipse itself, it destroyed DayJet and is at risk of destroying LinearAir, dozens of vendors, and may drain the personal fortune of Al Mann.
That is truly disruptive and amazingly efficient.
Not only has it burned up nearly $2B at Eclipse itself, it destroyed DayJet and is at risk of destroying LinearAir, dozens of vendors, and may drain the personal fortune of Al Mann.
DayJet destroyed DayJet, but I see DayJet as being responsible for helping Ecilpse cook the order book.
Well, the Eclipse problem has hit home here in CT. Our department which makes the air data system just got cut to a four day work week until February... I think the Eclipse nest just wasn't big enough for all the eggs my company put into it... and now we're bummin...
Heard today the Higher Power guys in NM were told told to head out of town today. Layed off. Guess they had been hanging around in case the training program resumed.
G1000/PERSPECTIVE COULD HAVE HAPPENED
OK, throwing raw Jet-A into the intake here …
Hopefully we are in agreement that the G1000 suite of components could not be swapped into the Eclipse 500 as is.
Besides the PFDs and MFD, functionality is distributed through the ACS and ISS suites, as well as secondary systems looking for communication and control signals.
However … G1000 could be one element of a significant avionics makeover, but the cost risks are huge.
The project could require serious IS&S involvement, however, there is a way that with sufficient cash a G1000/Perspective based solution is possible.
Implement G1000/Perspective as a fundamentally stock system. Replace the elements of the ISS (Integrated Sensor Suite) with the applicable Garmin equivalents. Leave the other components in place until a future consolidation/simplification plan is executed.
Migrate the AvioNG MFD elements to a “Class-3 EFB-like” system that is positioned where in keyboard bay, now occupied by the G400s. Use a certified hardware platform like the Astronautics unit use in Boeing and Airbus installations. I say “EFB-like” because it would still be an MFD, just positioned, deployed, etc. similar to how we use Class-2/3 EFBs today.
If done “right” the exact tiles from AvioNG MFD (Ops, Sys, etc.) could all be migrated to this ASC (Avio Systems Controller) unchanged. You could even have a “Backup PFD” tile, and EVS tile, and SynVis tile … whatever you wanted.
Although this concept was floated in the very early days of AvioNG, it reportedly did not make the Short-List to show to The Wedge because it was too radical a departure from “just a drop-in replacement”.
At the time, not rocking the public-perception boat was a huge design constraint.
In hind sight, that system would have been certified long, long ago.
All that said … no person in their right mind would attempt that unless AvioNG viability was otherwise imploding.
However … G1000 could be one element of a significant avionics makeover, but the cost risks are huge.
Yes, it would be expensive, but it would also add value by making the aircraft to be more built on COTS parts instead of proprietary. Eclipse intentionally showed how devalued the Eclipse 500 is due to its proprietary Avio system by essentially saying the DayJet aircraft are worthless without Eclipse's help in regards to someone else besides Eclipse fixing up the fleet. If going forward Eclipse goes BK and you have to pay for retrofits anyway, you might as well buy something that is as standard as possible instead of relying upon proprietary systems from a defunct company. I think someone who just has regular Avio (like much of the DayJet fleet) would be far better served paying to upgrade to the G1000 intead of paying to upgrade to Avio NG 1.5.
There is no such thing as an upgrade to G1000, nor is there likely ever to be. The only way Garmin will undertake the effort of certification is for an OEM where the volumes will justify the engineering investment. Just who would undertake such a huge investment? After BK, the new Eclipse, if there ever is one, won't have that kind of money. Furthermore, the whole discussion about the failed business model pretty much nails it that any post BK Eclipse is not going to be a manufacturer.
Even swapping out Avio for the G600 would require significant investment well beyond the means of any individual owner, or group of owners.
It seems pretty obvious that the existing fleet of Eclipse aircraft will go to their graves with Avio. That's the downside for taking on a proprietary design, instead of what every other manufacturer has done.
Jim Howard said...
"Either way, IMHO, the ADC architecture of the Eclipse PROPVIDES THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF REDUNDANCY AND INDEPENDENCE ON ANY CIVIL AVIATION PLANE WITH A GW OF UNDER 6,000lbs (which is the definition of a light twin)."
I'm not sure I understand that. The Cessna 172 and the various Cirri all have fully independent and redundant backup airspeed, altitude, and attitude information.
Are you serious? Can't be right?
First, I talked only about Air Data (ADC). How many pitot tubes does the 172 have? ONE! Eclipse? THREE (most comon config).
If you as much as hit a bee with the 172 pitot tube on climb out or your ONE pitot tube heating element fails in IMC and ices over you lose ALL airspeed indication.
Again, showme a single civilian airplane with less than 6,000lbs MTOW with three completely independent air data system and tripple display redundancy.
It is ridiculous to continue to insist on this being a flaw on the Eclipse.
TBMs_R_Us said...
There is no such thing as an upgrade to G1000, nor is there likely ever to be. The only way Garmin will undertake the effort of certification is for an OEM where the volumes will justify the engineering investment.
I don't follow your logic.
First, the G1000 got certified into (for example) the TBM850 and airframe that builds 50-60 per year. Eclipse has demonstrated 3x that volume already.
Second, Garmin is not responsible for certification on an airframe. Garmin simply provides support to the certification effort led by the OEM. Clearly, if G1000 can be certified in airframes that sell for $200K at 100/year volumes (e.g. 172), it can be certified in pretty much any airframe.
The Eclipse G1000 is not an upgrate. It is a new plane, just like the G58 Baron is a different plane than the B58 and the SR22-Perspective is a different airplane from the SR-22 Avidyne.
Eclipse MUST lift the entire avionics architecture from the Mustang and drop it on the EA500.
PWC FADECs, G1000 COTS, non-integrated gear, presurization, etc, no ATs. It is a back to basics approach.
Yes, it will take 18-24 months and cost about $2M/month to do it.
So what? That is still better than Gavion NG and will bump the value of the airframe by a huge amount.
This idea of keeping the G1000 operating along side Gavio NG HW and SW is crazy. Every line of Avio code MUST be removed from the Eclipse if you seriously want to go G1000.
After you rip out Avio NfG, you install a G1000 and then what? Where do you put the CB panels? Where do the standby instruments go? Where does the CDU go? Where do the FADEC's go? How do they interface? Who does the the A/C level Hirf and Lightning tests? Who does the 23.1309? Who does the flight testing? Who writes the cert reports? Who carries the cost for the minimum three years required for this project?
Forget it.
In a few years, the last few die hards will be spending huge bucks cannabalizing the grounded fleet to support their "Warbirds". They may even find some dodgy avionic shop in Alaska to do some Garminstein G600/Avio hybrid, but it will cost them a seat in the back for the server rack, and the panel will get a severe case of CB Acne :)
If Ken gets honest with himself, at the end of next year he can scrape up all his invoices, repayments, depreciation and debts on the EA500, divide them by his flight hours, and dream about the flight hours in the CJ2 he could have had.
# They may even find some dodgy avionic shop in Alaska #
i would suggest much further away , my friend ...
somewhere lost ...
if i would say 200 miles westward of Baïkal , most would say that i am biased ...!! ;-))
in fact , you are so right , i wonder if it wouldn't be faster and cheaper to buy an other plane ...?
#DayJet destroyed DayJet, but I see DayJet as being responsible for helping Ecilpse cook the order book.#
it's look more and more that my "gutts" about the Merry Band was some kind of no so crazy ...
(Etirc+Eac+DayJet = this sloppy mess!)
i have believed for quite a long time that more or less ALL is inter-linked in this incestuous relation of them ...
Eac = has been founded by a guy who used "other people's money" to run the polt ...
Etirc = exactly the same Motto ( Empty shell we are , empty shell we'll remain !) funnily enough what was the name of Etirc a while back ?
DayJet = founder played this some "other people's money" to run this plot
all the three serving the interest of the 2 others for their own best interest ...!!
Fred,
ca va?
in fact , you are so right , i wonder if it wouldn't be faster and cheaper to buy an other plane ...?
too late!
Some people will learn that cheap must not mean unexpensive...
And a certain Cardinal got all information to estimate the risks.
After the wegde's last year midnight sales shows the FPJ became a real hot potato for every serious investors ..but .... for real gamblers...
Did RP get any boni for his successful restructuring efforts?
But the game is not over....
Julius
Julius, Fred,
Word (not confirmed, but two sources) is that it's 'almost' over at EAC...
Expect word of another slimming down, to better match expenses to available funds. Think in terms of a 'decimal place' shift. There may be under a hundred left in the short term.
The DayJet filing is interesting. It seems that most of the 62 pages lists individuals who had paid their 'sign on' fee. So, if anyone out there wants to target 'air taxi' users it will be very easy to filter the data.
Think about that. They've had to give away their only real asset.
Their customers.
Shane
It looks like DayJet's debts may be understated by a significant amount:
The state of Florida in 2006 gave Boca Raton based-DayJet $2 million. Now, the state wants its money back.
The $2 million Quick Action Closing Fund was an incentive grant to woo the startup air taxi service to grow its business, but DayJet ran out of cash and ceased operations in mid-September after less than a year of flying. Since DayJet hasn’t met its part of the bargain, the contract entitles the state to a refund, said Wynnelle Wilson, an incentive administrator with the state’s Office of Tourism, Trade and Economic Development.
SFBJ:Shrinking companies may have to return state incentive money
Monsieur Shane :
please ... p.l.e.a.s.e. ...
do not tell me they won't reach Friday's Big Day ? ;-))
(while typing , i made a mistake ! i typed FRYday ... the corrector mentioned :unless you're writing about ABQ ,you're making a mistake!;-) )
i agree we are talking about the Merry band ... so we should be used to "oouuppss ... missed by that much ...!"
Julius , bonjour !
je vais bien ...! ;-)
et toi ?
(i think we should refrain speaking exotic languages , "some" could be upset ... or think we are saying bad things about them ...! ;-)) )
Shane,
The DayJet filing is interesting. It seems that most of the 62 pages lists individuals who had paid their 'sign on' fee.
yes, that's a nice list for car dealers, beauty doctors....
I do not believe, that in case of a BK in Germany all customers are listed in publicly available documents.
The liquidator will use this list for getting some cash back etc.
Perhaps the investment in EAC products is the best proof that there is still a lot of money in US or a big community of wealthy gamblers...
It will be interesting to watch how RP (and perhaps the wedge) are going to save their necks...
Julius
On the NM Court website there's a new case involving Eclipse and a Louis Abruzzo. Louis Abruzzo is seeking a TRO and an Injuction and there is mention of arbitration.
I believe this may be the person in question:
Compass Bank Profile of Alvarado Realty
Museum Ballooning in New Mexico
This is the Balloon Museum website:
Balloon Museum
Here's his political contributions that also list some of his businesses:
CampaignMoney.com - Louis Abruzzo
Anyone know what's up with this??? The case number is D-202-CV-200811984 and Abruzzo's attorneys are Joe McClaugherty and Jere Smith.
Genau , Julius ...
but you forgot few types of professionals , in you list ...
let's see ...
Psychiatric , Fortune tellers , etc... (for crooks , i think they had enough ... ;-) )
The DayJunk list is also the initial litmus test of the unsecured creditor list.
Anyone claiming to have an interest but not on that list will have the added task of proving their bona fides.
However, if you subtract their debt to Ecorpse, DayJunk has sufficient assets to make everyone else whole.
This is where you hope that the US Courts have the opportunity get it right.
Pay the (mostly) innocents and allow the DayJunk Debt to Ecorpse (aka an Ecorpse “Asset”) to wash out in the eventual Ecorpse Chapter 7 filing in January 2009.
but one of the problem in USA , there is still much too much money ...
it is its circulation which is a problem , not the fact that there is or there is not ...
even if i have to admit : too many gamblers left with way too much money ...!!
if the money would be in very short supply , the problem would be less ...a problem !
Fred,
please ... p.l.e.a.s.e. ...
do not tell me they won't reach Friday's Big Day ? ;-))
Can't confirm (or deny) Thanksgiving lay offs.
But it looks like it, which is a real downer. Next to Christmas, Thanksgiving is probably the only time American families get together 'without fail'.
I'm not certain the layoffs are coming, next week. And we must remember there is always the chance of getting more funding.
However...
This business is, for all practical purposes, finished.
1. The huge market, based on a volume of air taxi operators, simply does not exist. DayJet is proof of that, and a very public test case it proved to be.
2. No volume has driven the price point from below $900,000 to in excess of $2.2 million, which in turn reduces the volume, which further drives the price etc.
3. The plan was wildly overoptimistic, the execution has been terrible and the brand is damaged beyond repair.
4. Suppliers are fleeing the program. There will be more announcements in the coming days which will, for all practical purposes, ground the fleet.
5. The FAA audit is due shortly, but that just pressures EAC to do something dramatic to avoid it. Just like they did in August....
6. The dollar has gone north at exactly the wrong time for a company that boasts of 'pending' orders in Europe.
Again, I could continue, but I've a customer I need to see.
Shane
ZED :
i think that one of the trickiest thing the BK judge will have to do in this mess :
to sort out what belongs to who !
as i believe "assets" are not "toxics" ... may be a little too much unclear and shared ...!
The Eclipse Hangar Queen
Monsieur Shane
may i respectfully point out that this business is dead for a very long time .... !
the first time i have posted on Great Stan's blog : i had already this impression that what they thought of the European market and the way they were depicting it was driving the whole thing into the wall ....
sad , but it seems the feelings have been confirmed ...!!!
Fred,
ca va, ca va!
Vous vous rappelez?
After the wedge's Nimbus- I say deal - EAC had a weird history.
Was it just bad luck after the Williams failure?
Julius
Zed wrote,
"KEN … MEA CULPA"
Thank you; you are very kind. My apologies as well.
Switching gears...
For those who didn't like seeing ADC3 on the MFD, here is a shot of the alternative 2-pitot arrangement:
Puerto Vallarta Flight
Notice that the PFD airspeed and MFD airspeed differ only by 1 knot. This is the more conventional aircraft arrangement--Mustang and CJ for instance use this. Eclipse chose a 3-pitot arrangement with the 3rd pitot combined with a built-in static port, but if you don't like seeing that less accurate backup in your view, you just switch it off.
Also, notice from the picture, taken yesterday, that we were doing 363 knots on just 208 pounds per hour per side despite still being pretty heavy (61% of fuel still onboard). That's about 6.8 statute MPG while still making 417 MPH and bumping up against Mmo.
Baron--on the G1000. I don't think that's ever going to happen. I wouldn't want it anyway unless they could figure out how to do it without "dumbing it down" to the G1000 in the Mustang, which doesn't do many of the things Avio NG can do. Just a guess, but I think as unlikely as it may seem, completing the original Chelton FMS program is a lot MORE likely (and better) than trying to cobble together a G1000 package for the Eclipse.
Shane--I think you're missing several key fundamentals that will make the Eclipse a very successful venture (albeit probably quite different looking than it is today). Time alone will tell, and it will be interesting to watch! You need to be a little careful of becoming the "boy who cried wolf" by singing the company's demise over and over and over again without it actually happening.
Gotta run!
Ken
I had to quickly run Ed's statements from Washington Business week through my disruptive technology, value proposition, LRU... Here are the original transcript...
"If there was one thing we did right, it was the lunch buffet we choose for that board meeting on 23.May.2007", DayJet CEO Ed Iacobucci says.
DayJet co-flounder and very soon to be ex-chairman Ed Iacobucci said on Nov. 11 that the company might restart on a smaller scale if it can raise $5 million. They are going to make a Lillputt Dayport exhibition at the local model railroad club.
The company launched with a half baked plan to use ant farmers software processes and a per-seat, planned delay of +/-3 Hr's flying model to in-efficiently fly both of our customers to regional destinations of our choosing.
"The original joke", said Iacobucci, who was also startled by software giant Citrix Systems, "was to do a April fools prank on my old mate Vern (Wedge) by putting in an "order" for 1400 planes. Humourless ex-friend is now off my Xmas card list, after he sued my sorry arse for breech of contract and made me buy some. DayJet had 28 planes, but regularly flew about 12 to and from maintenance while 14 others were AOG. Sometimes we flew the customer", he said.
The challenges of a startup were exacerbated by the unforeseen desire of business travels to fly on time, for a resonable price to a destination of their own choosing Iacobucci said during a ex-managers forum in West Palm Beach sponsored by the Aviation Weak.
In an interview, Iacobucci acknowledged multiple issues contributed to DayJet’s problems, but, in the end, “it boils back down to a capital lack of common sense on my part.”
"DayJet was building a very tiny bemused group of fliers, but it had only reached an estimated 0.0005 percent to 0.0010 percent of the necessary minimum market required by the ant farmers excel spreadsheet, before the cash ran out," Iacobucci said. "There wasn’t enough time to do a half way decent job of market research to see if this half baked idea had any merit at all, because the Wedge kept telling us we'd get the jets on Tuesday. The justice departments is investing to see who will reap the fruit of this system", he added.
From the company’s start, “our No. 1 problem we recognized was education [of potential customers]. We were really targetting the extremely dumb, rich ones, but unfortunatly the Wedge beat us to them, so they all have there own Eclipse lawn ornament. The people left over were simply not stupid enough to fall for our nonsense” he said. “Perhaps, if there was one thing we did wrong, it was targeting a large-scale model too quickly. I found out afterwards I could have got 1400 1/72 scale Eclipse for our Liliputt diorama for far less than the millions the full sized ones cost.”
"Had DayJet doubled its customers, it would have been two, by my reckoning" he said, looking at his fingers.
While Iacobucci said he is too busy focusing on securing his future freedom from incarceration to consider wasting anyone elses money financing a restart of the company near its previous level of operations – with about 10 jets – he acknowledged bankruptcy is a certainty and said there’s a “wind-down team” preparing for that eventuality with an industrial document shredder. He declined to say if DayJet had any assets worth liquidating.
Another possibility is that DayJet’s back-door technology - designed for reaming the ignorant – an excel spreadsheet which took five years and $25 million to develop – may be licensed or sold to other users. However, DayJet only owns a minority stake in the company that developed the software, so Iacobucci said he as CEO and Chairman of that company is not closely involved in those plans.
Some analysts have speculated that DayJet will pursue legal action against Eclipse Aviation, the "manufacturer" of the planes DayJet rarely used, since DayJet has claimed Eclipse’s contractual failures contributed to the ceasing of operations. Iacobucci, however, declined to comment on that possibility noting "people in glasshouses don't throw stones."
Asked if starting DayJet with a different plane would have made a difference, Iacobucci acknowledged, "of course nearly any plane would be better than a grounded EA500"
Despite the difficulties with Eclipse, he said it was the best choice at the time, in terms of the sticker price "They offered a really good deal on INOP stickers. I thought they had just overstocked". Using Eclipse also allowed DayJet to grow without the hassle of flight operations.
“Frankly, we didn't bother doing any analysis to determine whether there was anything else at the time,” he said, "since the plan was so half baked it wouldn't have worked anyway".
While DayJet’s future is certain, Iacobucci is keeping his fingers crossed, hoping the DA will be too busy with the Wedge. As for investing more of his own money, Iacobucci laughed and said, he has wasted $20 million on this nonsense and is bored and looking for the next big thing to invest more."
“My reputation is severely taxed,” he said.
Shane--I think you're missing several key fundamentals that will make the Eclipse a very successful venture (albeit probably quite different looking than it is today). Time alone will tell, and it will be interesting to watch! You need to be a little careful of becoming the "boy who cried wolf" by singing the company's demise over and over and over again without it actually happening.
I'm all for hearing about these fundamentals that will make Eclipse a successful venture without first going through BK. I'm not seeing a price/volume equillibrium and instead see Eclipse repeating cooking their order book to make it falsely appear as if the volume is there when in reality it isn't. I see Eclipse continuing on as a servicer, but the more time goes on with Roel ranting about 1000 units per year and burning through money, the harder I see Eclipse being able to continue as an aircraft manufacturer.
julius :
nicht vergessen !
but you know , thunder very rarely strike twice the same spot ...
when someone has a downturn = ok , bad luck ...
the second time = very unlucky !!
the third time = what the hell is going on ?
the 4,5,6,7,8,etc = are you taking me for a dumb ?
Kenny , please ...
PUT the pink-goggles DOWN !
i have been auditing for nearly half my life ...
this the most funny or scary (as you like !) business plan i have ever seen ...
and don't forget that i have done so for the last few years in former USSR ... where i have seen some real weird stuff ...
but nothing to compare !
Confirmed that Eclipse skipped out on AOPA but went to MEBA
Shall we all pass the hat for poor Arnold?
From our 'former working pilot'
Avio controls everything except these items:
1. Nosewheel steering. (It sucks bigtime).
2. The wheel brakes.
3. The mechanical flight control system. (Cables and Pulleys)
4. The FADEC computers for the engines. Avio does control the starting of them.
Everything else is controlled by Avio. Even the trim actuators (servos).
If anyone has any ideas as to putting a Garmin 1000 system in the FPJ, think again.
It would be a major alteration of the airframe, that would have to get recertified by the FAA. This would also involve an additional flight test program. These are only some of the things that one would have to tackle. Wiring, and system integration also needs to happen.
If this ever became possible, I would look forewords to flying the FPJ again.
No, it isn't like pulling out that old set of radios and replacing them with new ones.
Not worth the trouble.
Ken,
I have not cried wolf
Yet.
You'll know when I do, and I suspect you won't have long to wait...
Remember, I've no commercial or other interest in the success or failure of the FPJ.
Unlike you.
No money has ever changed hands between this blog and anyone else.
Unlike you.
The 'snippets' I post as comments are just that. Watercooler chat, but a measure of what's happening under the radar and of interest to those of us who have open minds on the subject.
Unlike you.
I'm concerned for the staff, suppliers, depositors seeking refunds and the people damaged by their association with this mess.
Unlike you.
Shane
In a few years, the last few die hards will be spending huge bucks cannabalizing the grounded fleet to support their "Warbirds". They may even find some dodgy avionic shop in Alaska to do some Garminstein G600/Avio hybrid.
FJT. I've been trying to say the same thing, but you put it very eloquently AND gave me a good laugh at the same time!
Once the toe tag is put on EAC and it is hauled off to the morgue, don't expect it to come back any time soon. I believe most, or all, of the fleet will go AOG for years as systems fail and cannot be repaired.
Even if there were investment dollars around, which there aren't, there are too many other profitable opportunities for this money and Eclipse just isn't one of them.
My lender sources tell me that there is NO bank money available for anything but rock-solid deals with AAA credit. Even the private money is scared of their own shadow. I believe that the the chances of EAC obtaining enough funding to continue operations past the end of the year is now is zero.
Re: Dayjet. Was there ever any question this was a farce? Except for a few diehards, the opinion on the blog was pretty much unanimous that it would fold. The only question was when.
Ken,
thank you for the picture -
yes the little light birds is fast and does not use too much fuel.
Notice that the PFD airspeed and MFD airspeed differ only by 1 knot.
In case of mapping ADC1 or ADC2 data on the MFD I expect to see all data including vertical speed,YD,... etc. It is just a display!
ADC1/2 have the data - or are these data only shown when the PDF fails, or is this just a question of settings again (display layout)?
Strange!
Julius
Ken said …
Just a guess, but I think as unlikely as it may seem, completing the original Chelton FMS program is a lot MORE likely (and better) than trying to cobble together a G1000 package for the Eclipse.
Eclipse paid millions (plural) for an FMS solution that is reportedly long since completed and sitting on the shelf … just waiting for integration by IS&Less.
Snippets from the folks who wrote the code (a combined Eclipse and industry team), the redesign was very NICE and did everything a jet FMS should do, and more. Think of the original Avio concept and the recently announced Avidyne FMS900x (aka Son of Avio), and then add lots of “cool”.
But Chelton cashed ther check and then was months late on their 6.0 certification (surprise). And all along the AvioNG FMS concept didn’t fit the model IS&Less had established for their turboprop (nee PC-12) glass cockpit … that being a GNS430/KLN94 navigator. IS&Less passively resisted the effort all along, and when Eclipse was already beholding to them, they asked for a crazy amount of money and schedule to integrate the FMS code.
The Eclipse BoD reportedly told the Wedge “no mas, no mas … start delivering airplanes”, so they cobbled together the G400 solution for a quick certification. The silently ecstatic IS&Less then required more than a year to finally certify the AvioNG 1.5 configuration they always wanted.
Too little, too late.
Julius said …
I expect to see all data including vertical speed,YD,... etc. It is just a display!
Julius,
Attitude
Airspeed
Altitude
Altitude Rate (VSI)
Turn Coordinator
Do you _need_ more that as a back-up instrument?
But yes, other data are available, and the AvioNG design included an HSI Arc among other features.
Thank IS&Less for its absence. Do you detect a trend here?
Shall we all pass the hat for poor Arnold?
I would gladly pay him Tuesday for his aircraft today.
Here's the genius Mike McConnell explicitly showing how the Eclipse 500 is devalued because of Avio:
McConnell said that if prospective buyers want Eclipse to upgrade the first 16 ex-DayJet aircraft to current production standards, "It's going to get squirrelly." Eclipse has not established a retail price for performing such upgrades not covered by warranty and that scheduling priorities at service centers will dictate which EA 500 airplanes will be worked on first. "All current customers are in line before the DayJet airplanes."
Buyers should be aware that full factory support is critical to accomplishing such upgrades. Only aircraft fitted with both the aero and engine performance improvement package and Avio NG are eligible for the flight into known icing upgrade kit. Any airframe, system or avionics changes require modifications to the FAA-certified aircraft computer system [ACS] software because of the high level of system integration aboard the aircraft.
Of prime importance to potential buyers is the fact that Eclipse is unlikely to release ACS software source code to unauthorized third-party modifiers. As a result, obtaining independent STC approvals for any modifications, other than perhaps stand-alone, autonomous GPS navigators not be linked to other avionics or the autopilot, will be challenging and expensive.
Aviation Week:Eclipse 500s For Sale ''As Is''
Between Eclipse not doing retrofits and Mike pointing out how stuck customers and potential customers are, it's a wonder Eclipse has lasted this long. I guess the intials for "Total Aircraft Integration" should be AOG.
Zed,
you are talking about instruments,
I am talking about menus/ sub-menus of a PFD or MFD.
I prefer identical submenus for identical applications.
It is not a problem to indicate the limits of an instrument on the screen (FPJ: ADC3).
That is not a comparison of AVIO(NG) with GARMIN 1000.
Julius
Fred,
sorry,
I was a little bit slow!
Julius
Julius ...
keine Problem ... ! ;-)
i can understand that at your advanced age , things are a little slower ...! (joke! choutka ) ;-))
now if you would call me :
Schweinhunde ...
it would be fair retribution !! ;-))
I'm surprised at the interest in the DayJet filing. I thought it was a minor event.
However...
Lawyers seem to be queuing up to get details from me. For the record, the Chapter 7 actions were in Delaware.
Not Florida....
Shane
I'm surprised at the interest in the DayJet filing. I thought it was a minor event.
BK filings provide a treasure trove of information. If Ed wants to get back at Eclipse he can make the filings the gift that keeps on giving.
Dave said: "Confirmed that Eclipse skipped out on AOPA but went to MEBA"
Avweb got this wrong (as if that's a big surprise, but I digress). Palm Aviation and MyJet brought an Eclipse 500 to MEBA. There was no involvement with Eclipse Aviation, other than the aircraft was manufactured by Eclipse. To say that Eclipse Aviation exhibited at MEBA would be like saying that Agusta exhibited because Falcon Aviation Services had one of its A109s on static display. You won't find either Eclipse or Agusta on the MEBA exhibitor list.
Monsieur Shane ...
don't be too surprised , it reveal some details on the internal-cooking !
well , not about about the cooking itself , more about how dirty was the kitchen where the foods have been made ...
The BK documents are interesting reading...
So far the most glaring is DayJet lists the DayJet fleet:
A) As an asset (even though it was repoed a bit ago)
B) Worth an average of $1.75M or $49 million for the fleet
C) However, Eclipse/UT are listed as secured creditors with disputed claims of $38 million
E) Eclipse seized aircraft on 9/19/08
D) Kropp Holdings (Avcard) seized two DayJet aircraft on 9/26/08, so it appears Kropp seized it from Eclipse.
Also DayJet owes two law firms $56K. they are Crowe & Dunlevy and Holland & Knight, which Holland is owed the bulk of the $56K.
We also find out what various other lawsuits DayJet is involved in:
Balboa Capital (Breach of Lease - CA case)
HSR Business to Business (Breach of Contract - FL)
Knopp Holdings (Breach of Contract - FL)
Andrew Orchard (Written Demand Based on Alleged Material Misstatements)
Ed - like Vern - was involuntarilly terminated from CEO position. Ed's only responsibilities now relate to press releases...I guess he's purely a figurehead.
Names mentioned in the minutes are Yakov Friedman from Pan Atlantic Investments II Limited, Vishwa Chandra from Singularity Ventures (advisors for a Jordanian investor) and Paul Maritz who invested in DayJet Technologies through GTD Investments LLC.
Also in reading the minutes we find out that on 10/18/08 Eclipse sent DayJet $90K.
Fred,
I wouldh't use the pluralis majestatis...
never - just because of my age!
I doubt if all the lawyers are only interested in the case!
Julius
an other bits of info :
i was surprised that EASA would grant a Cert. to EAC on Friday ...
following announcement of "something special that day ..."
i had a phone with a friend from the inside ...
the first thing he said : "it would be real funny that a plane which has been refused for being "potentially unsafe " would be granted Cert. by the safety committee meeting ...."
2nd thing : to his knowledge "Special conditions" are still on effective ...
3rd thing : the Safety Standards Consultative Committee is NOT usually involved with issuance of Cert. ...
but with RULES MAKING and ADMINISTRATIVE WORKS on the matter ...
as specified by the EASA website ref :
http://www.easa.eu.int/ws_prod/r/r_cb_sscc.php
one can see reading the archive that there is no trace of issuance of Cert. from this committee !
(which is quite normal , it is not is their assignment !)
strange , isn't it ...? ;-))
julius
when 1 lawyers is in town , it is a starving person ...
when 2 are , they both drive Ferrari !
if so many lawyers are queuing , it is "may be" in accordance with an African proverb :
"when the river go dry , crocodiles fight one an other ..."
i forgot (silly me !)
the EASA meeting is on building an architecture of simply and efficiently share safety informations within the frame of members of EASA ....
quite far from CERT. !!!
This is who DayJet was hoping to be their savior:
Singularity Ventures
Then this is about Paul Maritz who has a "secret plan" for DayJet technologies:
VMware CEO Paul Maritz has secret plan for defunct airline's technology
Finally DayJet Technologies has updated its website:
Dayjet Technologies, LLC is an IT developer with a mission to develop and commercialize real-time optimization and resource management technology in a socially and environmentally responsible manner to create customer, employee and shareholder value.
DayJet Technologies has developed and is marketing a custom Flight Operations System that supports the following Microsoft technologies:
Windows Vista operating system
Windows Server 2008 operating system
Microsoft SQL Server 2005 database software
DayJet Technologies website
Looking at who has sued DayJet, HSR Business to Business was DayJet's marketing firm who created DayJet ads and whatnot:
B to B Magazine Profile Of HSR Business to Business
Oh and guess what else? Eclipse is a "key client" of theirs and they're the ones responsible for the EclipseFacts.com website. Don't be surprised if DayJet/Eclipse cause them a lot of damage...not that have much sympathy for the PR flacks trying to explain away the congressional hearing.
Dave,
Ed Iacobucci owned two other (non-FPJ) light jets. The craft seized by AvCard (Kropp) could have been those two, as they were registered to one of the LLC.
Ed Iacobucci owned two other (non-FPJ) light jets. The craft seized by AvCard (Kropp) could have been those two, as they were registered to one of the LLC.
That's a good point. I had forgotten about that. However, I thought that Shane had said something about seizures of the DayJet fleet by those other than Eclipse, but I might be mistaken.
How to Avoid Getting Conned
I looked into the Avcard case and it did involve Eclipse aircraft rather than Ed's other aircraft. The aircraft at issue were N161DJ and N162DJ and it did involve the Sheriff of Alachua County. Avcard has a $400K judgment against DayJet.
So Alachua County, Florida believes the net commercial value of an EA50 is $200,000.
The snowbirds have established the market.
Dave
I think Ed may have already sold the one of the non-FPJ Wingedfoot craft.
I have 3 tails associated with Wingedfoot:
Lear 60
N126CX
SN 60 49
No Flight aware data (note "Citrix" abbreviation in registration). Last spotted in 2004.
Lear 60
N268WS
SN 60-268
Flew into Boca today Vesey listed as owner. Vesey "is just another name for GECC (General Electric Credit Corp) a leasing company." according to the web. So this craft is flying to Iacobucci home field today.
Canadair CL-600-2B16 Challenger 604
N604WS
cn 5471
Last record August 2007, likely reregistered with a different tail.
Dave,
Also in reading the minutes we find out that on 10/18/08 Eclipse sent DayJet $90K.
The very day that the BoD pulled the plug.
Roel must be steaming at the thought that someone sent money to a company the day they shut down.
That could never happen with EAC, could it?
Oh, and keep an eye out for news on IS&S. You know, the guys behind AvioNG. They are due to deliver numbers and a commentary after the market closes today.
Shane
Shane -
You mean ...
An aggregate $6.0 million charge to reflect the suspension of production on a large, general aviation OEM contract. This charge consists of a $4.1 million increase in the allowance for doubtful accounts and a $1.9 million increase in the reserve for obsolete inventory.
1-505-724-1000
Hello ...
Hello .....
Fourth quarter 2008 results also include approximately $6 million in charges associated with the suspension of production on a large, general aviation OEM contract.
Geoffrey Hedrick, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Innovative Solutions & Support, Inc. said, “This has been a transitional period for ISSC with the successful production ramp on a number of our contracts offset by the untimely suspension of a large, general aviation OEM contract. Results in the fourth quarter reflect the financial impact of the actions we undertook based upon our assessment of the current risks associated with this customer.
INFORMATION ALERT
Something odd happening in GNV today.
Seems 'someone' is very keen to move the remaining DayJet birds out of there. I could only count 13 there today...
Anyone an idea what's going on?
Where are the rest of the DayJet aircraft?
More important, why are the birds leaving the EAC hanger in GNV in such a rush today?
Shane
Dear Customer,
Effective Monday, November 24, 2008, the office hours for Eclipse Aviation Customer Care, Technical Services and Maintenance Scheduling will be Monday – Friday 7:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. Mountain Time. Customers who call Customer Care outside of these hours and on weekends will be routed to a voice message system. Messages will be returned when the office is open. A separate telephone number is provided on the voice message for customers who have an urgent AOG situation and need immediate technical support.
There is no change to service coverage provided by ETIRC Aviation for European operators.
Safe Flying~~~
Eclipse Aviation Customer Care Team
877.350.0538
Eclipse Aviation Proprietary Information All information and data contained herein are the property of Eclipse Aviation Corporation and are not to be duplicated or disclosed to others for any purpose without the consent of Eclipse Aviation Corporation, Albuquerque, NM. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this email immediately.
We want to update you with the operational information that we can share.
Progress
Work at Eclipse continues with expected delivery of aircraft 259 and 260 during the next week. We also received FAA certification for the updated configuration of Avio NG on November 7, 2008. EASA certification is expected later this month.
Service Centers
Eclipse Aviation remains committed to the continued operational safety of our fleet. After a brief suspension of service last week, all service centers reopened on Monday, November 17 with full staff. To ensure continued operations, part availability is being monitored carefully and supply is improving. All levels are being managed to maintain an adequate supply for necessary maintenance and repairs with a focus on items required under ADs and SBs such as probes and GPS units.
Training
After a recent review by the FAA of documents submitted by Eclipse and our training provider, Higher Power Aviation (HPA), HPA has temporarily suspended flight training operations (simulator) while clarifying FAA requirements regarding Part 142 compliance with the EA500 AFM Flight Crew Training limitation. This impact on our type training program is not expected to be resolved for another 10-14 days, maybe longer. At best, due to reduced production in 4Q 2008, only one type training class would remain on the 2008 calendar. Based on our limited and tentative training capability, we have canceled all simulator training for the rest of this year. Because of this development and the financial situation at Eclipse, TAT has removed its employees for the remainder of the year. We will work with TAT to identify an executable start-up plan for 2009.
Requests for training in 2009 are being recorded and customers will be contacted once a firm schedule is in place. Please remember that you can conduct all recurrent training and initial type training with Eclipse flight instructors in your own aircraft in Albuquerque.
Sincerely,
Eclipse Customer Care
Eclipse Aviation Proprietary Information All information and data contained herein are the property of Eclipse Aviation Corporation and are not to be duplicated or disclosed to others for any purpose without the consent of Eclipse Aviation Corporation, Albuquerque, NM. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this email immediately.
An aggregate $6.0 million charge to reflect the suspension of production on a large, general aviation OEM contract. This charge consists of a $4.1 million increase in the allowance for doubtful accounts and a $1.9 million increase in the reserve for obsolete inventory.
Now that's disruptive!
One thing to keep in mind is that neither DayJet Corporation (the parent company) nor DayJet Technologies (the one with the Eye Pee) is part of the BK.
Fallows Speaks Regarding DayJet/VMWare
Guess I cheated death again today according to most on this board. I went to a business meeting in a friends Eclipse. My third trip and so far no one injured. Pretty neat little plane if they would have decided to finish it. 200 miles on 360# of fuel. It really needs a GPS, and an auto pilot that works off of something other than a heading bug. Prob.need to be on your best behavior on approaches in crapy weather.
Blast fromt the (pre-Wedge) past:
Goat:
...Turn and Burn- That monicker sounds rather like a bitter Mr. Raburn- except I'd consider it a bit more appropriate to use the handle "Spin and Incinerate”.
S&I:
"They're just trying to get rid of all the disloyal employees. Then will reopen with a new lean and efficient company".
Goat:
R-I-G-H-T
(I rest my case)
S&I:
"...send the class to detention without lunch".
Goat:
I think "detention" will soon be on the Wedge's activity list.
-------------------------
Not to worry though, the early release for "good behavior" thing will surely help him too...
(HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA).
There is an interesting situation developing which merits some attention. Here it is:
- Many Eclipse owners purchased the E500 because they couldn't afford a more expensive jet
- Many of these aircraft are financed, and one of the requirements of keeping a loan in place is that owners keep their aircraft insured and obtain recurrent training
- With no recurrent training available, many owners are going to be unable to insure their airplanes for flight. They likely can still get insurance for the plane as long as it's not moving.
- If owners cannot obtain insurance for flight, then their aircraft are effectively AOG.
- Since new buyers can't obtain training, existing aircraft will be difficult to impossible to sell, especially in this declining market.
- I've heard a rumor that a company in Arizona may be able to provide recurrent training in the customers' aircraft. Whether the insurance companies will accept this or not is unknown.
What does all of this mean? Well, resale values are likely no where near the asking prices we are seeing on Controller. Try $1 million. Or $750,000. Who knows, if no E500's are selling we don't really know what the market price is.
Also, people who have placed an initial deposit and are faced with losing $150-180k should probably count their blessings because it could be much worse. Better to lose $180k than a 60% deposit, or own an aircraft you can't fly and you can't sell.
Pretty depressing, I admit, but better to make a decision based on facts rather than rely on the "hang on and hope" strategy.
I hear Ken loves the potato skins at Bennigan's.... the broccoli cheese soup, too...
The can do recurrent training in their planes...
PS - check out the ads on Controller. Better hurry, supplies are limited! ;-)
S/N: 722, TBD, IFR, Only asking $25k over deposit. 3Q 2009 With FIKI, Avio NG, and more. Be the envy of the early owners!
Uh, huh
S/N: EA 500.000316, INTERNATIONAL EQUIP, IFR, Deliv October '08. ALL EUROPE & WORLDWIDE EQUIP: NG+GARMINS+FIKI+DME+ADF+DIVERSITY XPNDRS+TAWS+TCAS. 50% BONUS DEPR! $2,095,000
I don't think you get the 50% bonus depreciation unless you take delivery before the end of the year. HELLO!!!
/N: EA.500.000.0180, 0 TT, IFR, THIS JET ALSO AVAILABLE FOR LEASE IN HOUSTON, TEXAS $23,500 / MONTH , 2008 Paint, 2008 Int , 6 Seats.
What, only $23,500 per month for an aircraft I can't fly? Where do I sign up?? ;-)
cw,
sort of rhetorical..
see, I think when the dust settles, the claim of having so much financing will also be proven to be more BS... so, while they seemed to have failed miserably, I do not think they blew all that money - I just think, like Nimbus, they made claims that were untrue regarding their financial situation.
Just a pattern... I also believe we will learn that EAC and Dayjet has a lot more in common so to speak, than we are led to believe...
B95,
I've enjoyed the hightened precision of the technical discussion this thread, but I must comment on the observation that:
"As it turns out, having certified a twin-jet off the bat and produced 250 in 10 year is a MONUMENTAL ACCOMPLISHMENT for a start up. Regardless of what happens next".
This ignores that EAC spent say $2B in 10 years. That makes the accomplishment rather less than monumental- what was singularly exceptional is that they did not get shut down after $400M, or $700M, or $1.1B or $1.5B, or, well, I'll leave it there.
Given enough time and money, ANYTHING will fly.
My favorite candidate for this effort would not have been a new airframe, but rather a re-engined (Williams or PWC) and glass-cockpit version of a perenial favorite. It think with a stir-fry wing, and Eclipse upper management acumen, this could have been accomplished in about half the time.
EA-50x
I think the wood trim adds a certain touch of elegance missing from the EA-500! (Although both offer leather trim with the LX version). And, it IS equiped with anti-skid brakes, plus a larger luggage area. Did I mention a working autothrottle? While it might not quite beat Ken's 350 knot cruise speed, it does get around 15 smpg, versus 7- and it IS capable of "substantially" exceeding 6.73 mph (well, more or less...). Cold weather operations?- check! AND, unlike the EA-500, it can carry full pax and bags with a full tank of gas.
(Plus, it doesn't blow tires every few months- as long as Firestone's are avoided...).
--------------------------------
Rumor has it, this is REALLY the platform Big Ed's disruptive taxi service was asking for in the first place.
The ants were so disappointed.
EA-50x
Is that available now with GPS? Can we get the upgrade to anti-skid brakes soon???
Anti-skid, standard!
The Garmin GPS package is included with the luggage rack option. (But it includes floormats and cup holders!).
While not standard, on-board oxygen is available for high alitutde ops (or while trasporting Grandma).
I would also like to point out, that a "Woodie-Complete" service plan is available, with over 4000 service centers, substantially more than EAC offers!
(Although with the recent rumors about the floundering auto industry bailout, I'm not so sure that will always be the case :)
The EA-50x also comes standard with several airbags.
I'm not sure, but I think gas-bags are available with the EA-500. (At least I've heard them mentioned in conjuction with it).
And the EA-50x has a trailer hitch for extra baggage, whereas the EA-500 ditched it's excess baggage, back in August.
;)
Billy :
(sorry if i am not good at putting my thoughts as little colorful images ... ;-) )
you're DAMN right ...
only a bit TOO kind to my liking ...
i would say :
Go in your back-garden , make a hole in the grass (don't forget to duck for avoiding the frying-pan , wife is throwing at you ...)
put a bit of water in it ...
use your feet to mix water + earth to get a sticky mud (usually dogs and kids are quite good for such use ...)
once you have a disgusting kind of earth-soup , sit close to it and start throwing "little funny greenish images with Benjamin Franklin on it "
at some point (after throwing enough of those greenish images** ) i guarantee you what will appear from the hole is (either and depending of your primary wish[es] :
a Top-model kissing you on lips ...
a expensive sport-car tank full ...
a oceanfront mansion in Arizona ...
or even a private-jet ...!
the only one thing you have to do , is to sit long enough with "greens enough" to make it happen !
only one MAJOR flake into this , the ones who sat close to the mud-pit in ABQ , sat there because they had a limited supply of "greens" ... what a shame ...!;-))
and off-course , YES it is no wonder why a start-up (after 10+years , is that still ?) finally produced "something" (not sure it can be called a plane ...at least not a finished one!)
i still fail to see the prodigy ?? am i blind or missing something ?
(** = a little footnote for "when is that enough" : usually it starts to be nearly enough when wife refuse you sex ... ; when she is leaving you a "post-it" on the fridge with "your diner is in the dog !" when you come home at night : you are closing on your aim ; when she does her luggages : you are almost there ...; when you cannot see your kids anymore , i am afraid you missed the target ! )
(footnote of the footnote : when she is "traveling on her own , and send you "driving for 3 days" :
you are in trouble , my friend ... if you kept enough to buy her a 4 carats diamond , you might save situation ; otherwise ....)
now something self-explanatory :
"There is no change to service coverage provided by ETIRC Aviation for European operators. #
this is what i call : "f***d-up dead rats lying" ...
or
don't they have any shame ?
you see when you have NOTHING in the pocket ...
if someone give you NOTHING ...
what do you have in your pocket ?
an other "Prodigy" i would say : NOTHING ! ( i burnt one of my last brain-cell to figure this out ...)
now you have a very good explanation of :
0+0=1 ! ;-))
Ecorpse Press release,
ABQ 20.11.08
ISS thrown under the bus
Today Ecorpse aviation, the non-manufacturer of the EA500 Lawn ornament announced that it was severing ties with Boeing cockpit display vender ISS.
Pied Piper, soon to be ex-CEO of Ecorpse announced " Ecorpse is today proud to announce the impending DAY VFR upgrade package for the EA500. Since ISS have repeatedly proven to be unable to hit the moving target which Ecorpse cosiders a specification, we have decided to throw them under the Williams/Avidyne/BAE Systems bus. Any rumours of ISS deciding to stop production is obviously nonesensical lies spread by unworthy bloggers. We will roast their stomachs in hell".
"Anticipating the imminent demise of this incapable vendor, Ecorpse is well advanced with the certification of our Day VFR upgrade kit. EASA approval is guaranteed for next Tuesday. The new vender, Aircraft Spruce, will be providing an Aerosonic TSO'd ASI and Altimeter in a nifty pod which can be velro'ed onto the black AvioNfG screen" said Piper proudly.
"Ecorpse has had a close, relationship with our customers. We are behind them all the way in " said Piper.
"Our customers positive experience with VFR flight during our first AD issue has lead to repeated requests for this upgrade. Ecorpse is a pioneer of the use of such distruptive value propositions, and is requesting that customers interested in continued operations of their EA500 again adopt the position" said Piper via satellite phone from his yacht.
In associated news, the cardinal of the faithful was noted blogging smuggly how quickly Ecorpse addressed blogger concerns regarding conficting primary flight information.
freedom :
this works of yours is hilarious ...BRAVO !
you're definitely right !
a "disruptive value proposition" ...
you give them cash , in returns , they give you Nuts ...! ;-)
Sorry to bring this thread to an end, but I think you will like the new headline.
Shane
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