UPDATED SUNDAY 7th December 00.23 GMT
Eclipse Refunds: For The Ten-Percent Deposit Holders
To anyone who placed a 10 percent deposit on an Eclipse 500, and timely elected to receive a refund in response to Eclipse Aviation Corp.’s June 6, 2008 letter, yet never received a refund before the company declared bankruptcy on Nov. 25, 2008: On Tuesday, Dec. 9, 2008, the court overseeing Eclipse’s bankruptcy will consider motions to appoint an “Official Committee of Refund Deposit Holders.” Deposit holders Bill Hewitt, Bradley Investments Inc. and Don Buttrum, all of whom timely elected but never received refunds, with assistance from the law firm Gordon & Rees LLP, will seek the appointment of a committee to represent those individuals/entities that placed a 10 percent deposit.
It’s the ad hoc committee's opinion: individuals or entities that placed a 10 percent deposit on an Eclipse 500 have different legal rights and remedies, separately from the other creditors and deposit holders. An independent committee made up of representatives from those who placed a 10 percent deposit should be created to ensure that those interests are protected. If you're an individual or an entity that placed a 10 percent deposit but didn’t receive the requested refund, e-mail Timothy McCulloch tmcculloch@gordonrees.com for additional information.
So let's tally the 'good vibes'
It's possible that Roel Peipers' plan might work, leading to a restart of production in ABQ in the early part of 2009. But only IF his plans get past the bankruptcy judge AND the key suppliers stay on board. He also needs to prove there are enough orders at what will clearly need to be an even higher list price and finally, he has to avoid someone else putting in a spoiler bid. It's possible that one of the existing vendors might do a 'Beech Starship' and simply close the whole show down in an effort to avoid future liabilities. And don't forget, Wedge is lurking. If he won the bidding auction in January this would surely destroy whatever remains of the 'goodwill' stakeholders still have in the project.
There are still a group of depositors who are 'pot committed' and will hang in for anything that they can get. Remember, some of these guys have been waiting for up to 8 years, so what's another couple of months? Likewise the owners who've already got one (or more) and know that the possibility of selling on is negligible until the situation is clearer. These two groups have slightly different agenda's but are likely to continue passive support, as long as it's not costing them more money.
Speaking of money, those of you owners who've not paid your CPI or Jet Complete yet are in for a rude shock. While Chapter 11's principle purpose is to protect a company from it's creditors, those who owe it money are in for the cattle prod treatment until they stump up what's been invoiced. Better hire good lawyers, boys and girls. OK, so this is not 'good news' for those owners affected, but it's positive for the company.
First, an appeal
It appears that there is a willingness to support the depositor/owner group from within the blog. While I laud this sentiment, I would remind ALL of you that one man stood up for this blog when we were threatened by EAC in April of this year. I should also remind you that an EAC employee who's only failing was to speak the truth was also picked on by Wedge at the same time. I speak of course of Brian Skupa. If anyone wishes to make a contribution to any of the above causes, please route it though Gunner
a.k.a.
Rich Lucibella
PublisherSWAT Magazine
5011 N. Ocean Blvd
Suite 5
Ocean Ridge, FL 33435
Tel: 800.665.7928 Ext 704
Tel/Fax: 561.337.1551
This gentleman has demonstrated with his own hard earned cash, an excellent lawyer (thanks again, Norman) and the belief in doing the right thing, that he can be trusted to distribute any monies in an appropriate manner.
Update for creditors
Second is the unsecured creditors meeting but you better get a move on. It's on Monday next, December 8, 2008 @ 11:00 a.m. in Room 5209 of the J. Caleb Boggs Federal Building on 844 King Street, Wilmington, Delaware 19801. Remember, if you're not in, you can't win, so get yourself represented if you can't make it in person. I'm quite sure that comments posted will keep us up to date with 'progress'.
The latest AD
We know the AD for the 'carbon build up' issue (effective 4th December 2008) limits the FPJ to FL370, even with both engines running. What people should really be aware of is the limits imposed by the AFM for 'One Engine Inoperative - Service Ceiling'. Since the problem which the AD is addressing is exactly that situation, I thought it valid to share with you the relevant data from the FPJ's AFM. At ISA -20C, with 5, 760lbs on board, the service ceiling is 23,250' on one engine. Better be carful in warmer spots, as at ISA +20C you're only good to 7,750'. At those sort of FL's you're in traffic and lots of weather. Where's the fun in that?
Ex employees of the company
There are a number of ex employees who've been left as unsecured creditors, a few of whom have contacted the blog email seeking like minded people. If you are in this position and want to make contact with others, one of those affected has set up the following email address, execlipser@gmail.com as a 'rally point'. Please use it to get together, as we know from our experiences here that acting in unison works better than individual responses. Ask the Wedge, who must still be regretting suing the blog.
An eBay auction
FPJ owners are trying anything to raise a few dollars on the back of their purchase. How about bidding for a ride in a FPJ.? Be careful about this, you might win...
The 'mythical' s/n 266
On the 26th of July 2008, an 'Experimental CoA' was issued to EAC for this aircraft. This was well out of sequence. For example, the 'last' FPJ (delivered on the 21st of November) was s/n 259 and that only appeared on the FAA database for the first time on the 18th of August. The importance attached to '266' is twofold. First, it's been used by EAC to show off the 'final' configuration to customers and suppliers in a effort to drum up support. Second, as the self declared first 'completed' aircraft it was going to be the benchmark for all upgrades as well as the reference configuration for all future production. What will happen to this orphan now? Will it be dumbed down to lower people's expectations, or simply vanish in the fog of war created by Chapter 11? I suspect we will be 'surprised' by it's departure to 'Russia' in the near future...
A personal observation
Clearly, I could go on. And on, and on. But I won't. Last week we saw reaction from suppliers, customers, staff and the owner/depositor to the main event, and the subsequent debate on the blog. As predicted, once cash ran out, the merry go round came to a screeching halt. Smaller suppliers are in a bad way, staff are in a no win position, depositors have been formally notified of their losses and owners have a aircraft worth a lot less than they thought, with an uncertain future looming for all. Events this month will determine if the proposed bail out stands up to scrutiny. I hope that everyone 'escapes' from this mess with the best outcome possible.
And finally (for this post)
On Tuesday 11th April 2006, Stan Blankenship started this off with a comprehensive post detailing the obvious flaws in the 'story' being sold by EAC. You can review it here, but for me, one key line stands out:-
"The obvious conclusion is that this program can only pay off with delivery rates unprecedented in the industry."
How true that statement turned out to be. Indeed it will still apply to EAC V 2.0, if that gets going next year. One thing is pretty certain though. Whatever happens, this blog will continue to keep a close eye on things, and will probably be accurate in predicting the final outcome.
Shane
431 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 431 of 431If a "VLJ" falls on my head, I'll attempt to evaluate whether it was "6,000 pounds" or "10,000 pounds" . . . 'such a subtle difference.
gadfly
(The subtle difference that defines whether you are a "fan", or a "connoisseur".)
As a lurker for the past several months it has been interesting to see the range of knowledge, stupidity, but yet good ole common "Street Smarts" displayed by the players in this fiasco. As for the name BTDT, Been There Done That, summarizes my past 45 years of life associated in someway or another with aviation. I have had the fortune of knowing some of the great ones in aviation as well as those that stayed in the background, watched, listened, learned that some people should not be allowed close to an aircraft while others are masters of the art of driving an aircraft through the sky as well as knowing what works in aviation business wise and what does not.
One lesson learned was from an old sage that said, dont buy the first 100 of anything. Another was that in aviation if it is to good to be true it is. Have seen lots of dumb ideas come and go and been around to see them in a business sense crash and burn.
Somehow this VLJ thing got blown out of proportion by a person with more money than brains. Back in the 60s I stood and looked at the Pinto Jet, saw a four place version of the Cessna T-37 sitting in a hangar in Wichita, on the other side of town at the Beech factory saw an abortion that came from overseas and was soon put out of its misery by non other than Olive Ann who said it aint gonna work. Say the scam by Tony Fox in the early 80s and in fact was at his factory in a suburb of Minneapolis where the windows and doors to the "factory" area were covered with paint and yet there were the sounds of air drills and rivet guns eminanting in the distance that would make one think there was actually a factory. Got to admit Tony was good at the "fluff" part of sales.
Back at NBAA 2003 a few of us OFs, thats Old Farts, had lunch together and were discussing the Eclipse. That was a landmark year where Eclipse announced 3000 orders. That was also the year that Cessna announced the delivery of the 3000th Citation and variants. So during the this discussion we did a little math. Ok it takes Eclipse less than 4 years to get that many "orders" and at the time they were going to put them out the door at a rate of over 600/year and at a price of $895,000 per plane. Now having been around for a few years we all said that there was something wrong with the picture. First off the price of a new C-500 in 1973 was $695,000. I know that was the price because I took delivery of SN-37 in that time frame. So here we are 30 years later and Cessna has delivered an average of 100 planes a year for 30 years and the new kids on the block are trying to make everyone believe they have that many orders!!! And at a price of only $200K more that a new C-500from 30 years earlier!!! As we all looked at each other we said it ain't gonna work.
About every 10 years or so a Jim Bede type wants to set the aviation world on fire and reinvent a aviation wheel that does not need to be reivented or for that matter aviation does not even need. I can see the need for the LJ but for the VLJ and the so called Airtaxi Model blackening the skys of the world. NO WAY. It will never happen. The VRs'/Wedges of the world as well as the Eds' come along with dubious backgrounds and a way to fleece money out of other people to try and start a revolution in aviation. Notice that they always come out of it with THEIR money in tact and all the others who put money into the scam left with nothing but broken promises and a half completed piece of flying parts that might just as well be sent to the junkyard. As for Cirrus, D-Jet, Piper look for those projects to be put on hold in the next few months.
I appreciate the loyalty of those trying to save face with their Near Jet toys but they would make nice artifical reefs off the coast of Florida lets say about 20 miles East of Boca Raton.
I learned along time ago that in aviation if you think you have a good idea or you have accomplished something that you think is fantastic there is probably someone that has already done that and more.
An example. After a year in the right seat of a certain large airplane for a airline I got the notice that it was time for upgrade to the left side. So get the paperwork in order, get the log book caught up to date etc. While on a short layover waiting for our next plane to arrive I was in the pilots lounge adding up the times in my log book and looked at the total flying time at the bottom of the page. WOW a milestone! I had passed 10,000 hour of total flight time. So with joy and delight I announced to the Captain and the Flight Engineer the glorious number. Capt looked over the top of his paper he was reading and with a bland tone said, I have over 13,000 hours just in that type of plane, the FE looked up from his paperback work of literature and stated, I have over 15,000 hours on the panel in that type of plane.
So there you have it. Someone somewhere has BTDT. Seen the scams and learned from them. But it seems that every few years another one comes along and someone will fall for it, spend their money and then wonder what happened while the Con Jet artist goes on with life having not spent one dime of his money and lived off of someone elses and blames everyone else for a failure that was domed from the start.
We're domed I tell ya, domed.
Seriously though, excellent first post BTDT, great start. Welcome!!
BTDT,
Welcome to the blog.
Thats' some 'first comment'. I look forward to more 'illumination' in the future.
However, it's now...
SNIPPET TIME
Various reports reach me from Delaware. It would appear that the EAC/ETRIC lawyers have one brief.
Screw everyone.
However, it would also appear that they may not have counted on the abnormally high interest in this Chapter 11. Awkward questions were asked, and enlightenment might result.
Perish the thought.
A fuller report will follow in due course.
Shane
BTDT
You just made my day . . . someone who has “clicked” that five-point inertia buckle, set the little lever with the round knob on top, settled back to go over the pre-flight list another time . . . five or ten thousand times. My Dad would be pleased . . . he died 2 March 1957, little knowing that millions of times, his inertia restraint system would be the standard for at least another half century . . . and beyond. (And having built the calibration units, that confirmed the 2.5 G setting on most of those units, I, too, am pleased.)
gadfly
(The very first aviation lives saved with that system, was the crew aboard a Sikorsky chopper in the Swiss Alps in a rescue mission . . . everyone walked away from the crash. By then, my Dad had been dead for about six months. Before that, a race driver by the name of Bill Vukovich (and his race-team partner) was saved by that inertia harness system in the 1954 Mexican Road Race in a Lincoln, going over a 100 foot cliff, at 90mph. Vukovich later died at “Indy”, in 1955, . . . probably dead on impact, before the fire.)
So there you have it. Someone somewhere has BTDT...
Welcome.
You will get push bak from the Baron and his lust for goad... not misspelled - but he and everyone here know that you are in fact correct my friend.
This industry is littered with VLJs from years ago... perregrine, Foxjet...lalalalla! Look at Visionaire.
The only thing remotely remarkable about EAC was the degree to which the know-nothings funded the ill conceived business plan of Vern Raburn.
Anyhow, I believe Cirrus is a new company, with a successful model... reinventing the single low end prop... a market all but abandoned, and there was room for improvement - so YES, BTDT is a good rule to follow, especially if you are planning a revolution.
You better have some real advantages in your back pocket, and they better be tough to copy... or you ARE toast.
Chances are, if you find a place in the maret that is unfilled, its a small place the establishment has left behind.. for now.
Its a BIG, well funded, long standing establishment, with a lot of talent in all respects.
If you think you've found a hole where they missed the boat by a long shot, and you think you are so clever they cannot catch up, and you believe the market is huge... you must be on drugs.
At the very least, you are a misinformed neophyte ego maniac.
AND - if you can rasie $3Billion, you are probably a very well connected talented one, too!
Incest is mentioned in customers objection to the proposed 363 sale.
Dave, kinda funny since the only person Roel hasn't said he was going to screw, was his own "sister" company....
Anyhow, this is exactly the kind of NOISE I was calling for.
If this continues, the jig is up, as they say.
Zis, MTOW for the Phenom 100 is 10,472 lbs.
Regardless of what we call them, there is a certain category of planes, typically below $1.5M and below 6,000 lbs that are also operated by individuals vs entities/corporations.
Lets call them personal jets if you want. I think the DJet will be firmly there (maybe 50% personal use, 50% corporate use).
The Phenom will be more than 90% corporate/institutional use. Mustang maybe 80%.
Eclipse tried for that 50% line (if you discount the air taxi hype).
I think the DJet will go squarely against the Mirage/Meridian/TBM. So we'll have (maybe) a chance to see how piston-prop, jet-prop, and fan-jet fare in direct competition.
BTDT,
Hundreds of thousands of people have learned to fly airplanes. Few of them write well about the overall experience of aviation.
Welcome aboard… and tell us more.
Nice post BTDT.
Unfortunately, the sad truth is that the entire GA (excluding BizAv here) market is a niche of a niche. It's been dying or stale for 2 decades. The exciting news there is always the next Glass-GPS or similar to retrofit the used fleet.
That is definitely not an environment that is suitable for innovation.
There were about 18K GA planes built in the US in the 79/80. Now it is 1/10th that amount. That is just too bad.
It is a long shot, but just like they did for 4-place pistons, maybe Diamond and Cirrus can inject some innovation in the $1M-$1.5M market. In the end though, they'll just move the needle a tiny bit.
B95,
"Shane, at least from the US, Eclipse Aviation comes up on top".
Big Rog, B95, that one.
But...I got curious. (Too bad that never happened to Wedge...)
Here's somet'n to chew on, looks like the blog is running about 1200 visitors per day, EAC about 500.
(Wedge's cell, well, maybe we ought to take turns. I'm selling pointy sticks, if anyone is interested...).
Blog-o-rama
B95,
"The FAA has a definition for light twin engine airplanes and it is at 6,000 lbs MTOW or below. Those airplanes, among other things do not need to show positive rate of climb on engine failure".
Good point- I had forgotten the definition, and it seems like a good delineator to me too, although the marketing departments don't always concur, as others duly note.
Some time back, there was a lot of discussion about the displays crapping out, or not crapping out, or maybe sometimes crapping out, and it seems like there is some dela about the display software not having to be level A certified, if the airplane is less than 6K#, and/or six pax- I can't remember quite which combination.
(I guess the FAA reasoning is, well, it's only 6 souls on board, and if it's less than 6000#, it can't kill that many people on the ground either. Rather pragmatic, if a bit "calculating"...)
That seems like it would be a concern for the heavier-than-very-light airplanes under development...
One of my favorite contenders, the Spectrum S33/40 (S33 comes in at 7500#):
Spectrum S33
Hello BTDT,
Welcome to the blog- you're a kindred spirit of Gadfly, as I'm sure you've noticed too, if you've been reading for a while.
(Gotta say, JZguy gotcha on the sn 37 bit- he's just a pill sometimes !! :), but still, I think your comment about the first 100 needing some work, is about right.
I'm working on my 50-ith post or so, so please ignore my next several months of blogging.
"That is definitely not an environment that is suitable for innovation."
statement above is quicksand....
the reality is, there have been many innovations.
Perhaps not the one's YOU need to see, but everyone makes THAT marketing mistake.
YOU are not the market... neither was VErn.. hence the problem.
Another problem, REALITY.
Certain performance is best suited for props, rather than jets. Het over it and move along, OR acknowledge mini-jets are NOT PRACTICAL...OR AFFORDABLE, becasue they simply DO NOT appeal to any large market.
Perhaps you and Ken are more alike than you might have figured.
You have a few hundred dissastisfied friends seeking a dream jet... that simply does not exist.
Sorry to say.
It might be frustrating for you, but it does not make it the product of a lack of innovation... just reality, brother.
I appreciate the welcome from the group.
Will add this comment and then on to a story as my unwilling participation as a Cessna test pilot/customer in the 70s.
As a mangament group from VR to Peg they were a joke. In some ways a group of Lemings headed towards the big cliff. The entire group including Harrington and Taylor were a bunch of EAA Groupies that VR picked up along the way. As for a group that couldnt shoot straight they had the gun pointed toward their feet from day one.
Much has been said about certification and the FAA and things in general about the process of the TC and the PC for Eclipse. But understanding the process is something that even the most seasoned of those that have been through it can sometimes scratch their heads.
Case in point before I talk about Citation #37. I worked for a company located 40 miles north of Wichita as their Chief Pilot from 1970 to 1973. When I was hired my first duty was to accept delivery of a new 421B Golden Eagle sn#32. I think you can see a pattern here.For the newbies the 421B was the top pf the line in piston corporate aircraft of the time. Pressurised and did well in the low 20s altitude wise. We had an A model 421 before the B and here are some little tid bits to think about when it comes to FIKI certification. The B had a longer nose for more baggage and also some better aerodynamic benefits. It also had a longer wing with about 10 inches extra between the engine and the cabin. On the origional A model this area was not covered with deice boots. As to what recertification regarding FIKI was done on the B model I have no idea. Ok so here we go with a new better version of an already certified airplane. i loved that airplane. King Gold Crown and all the bells and whistles. 2 months into flying it I am climbing out of SLC enroute to PDX. Didnt get into clouds until about 10K msl and started to pick up a little rime. Around 13K it was still getting ice and I cycled the boots. Ice poops off and we continue the climb. By 16K it was getting dicey. Boots were doing there job but noticed on the inboard section of the wings I had a good 3 inches of rime and it was building. By 17.5 it stopped climbing and I asked center for lower. Long story short after about 15 minutes I was able to get out of the stuff and on decent into BOI where I had elected to divert because it would not climb i lost the ice and decided to continue to PDX as I was on the backside of the WX. So here we have the same basic airframe, more or less, but hey there Mr Engineer what about that 9 inches of extra wing and no deice boots.It worked OK on the older version so whats 9 inches got to do with it anyway. Well after about 3 weeks there was a field kit to install boots on the inboard wings and after SN50 they were standard on the production line. So when I look at any 421 B or later C model I know why the inboards have deice boots and how they got there.
As for good ole sn37 C500. In 1973 the boss decides he wants a jet. Here we are in Wichita with Combs Gates Lear on one side and Cessna on the other. Our Chairman is on the BOD of the 4th National Bank in ICT with Duane Wallace and yet his next door condo neighbor at the Shawnee Country club is Harry Combs. That was a sales push like you have never seen. Harry even offered us a LR 25 to use for 6 months if we put in the fuel and paid the insurance. But oh well we got the Citation and I won't go into the resons.
Several months later an AD comes out on the JT-15 engine. Tower shaft bearing failure in the accessory case drive. Only certain SN engines were affected and yes you guessed it ours were not included. A week later at FL310 over GLD we get smoke in the cabin and cockpit and the oil pressure on the left engine takes a nose dive. Divert to GCK and shoot a VOR approach on one engine to minimums in a snow storm like only western Kansas can have. Next week ALL JT 15 engines are under the AD.
Point is no matter who you are as a manufactuer there will be issues on a new airplane or even a different "upgraded" model of any aircraft. Why the ABQ bunch thought they could rush a FIKI certification and then even have the balls to deliver an aircraft that is only 50% complete with what the customer ordered is beyond me. What further surprises me is that customers would even accept the airplanes but I guess the Kens' of the world have their reasons.
We can sit here and send slings and arrows back and forth till the cows or FPJs come home and it will not make one bit of difference. Six months from now I doubt if there will be one of them still flying, The Wedge will still have his money and a bunch of depositors will be screwed and Roel will be off somewhere in Europe thinking up some other scam.
Bet this BK thing will be a tret to follow.
From the US Trustee's objection to the 363:
"The UST requests that the relationships of the Debtors' insiders to the proposed purchaser be fully disclosed and evaluated in order that a good faith determination can by made by the Court at the time of the sale hearing as is required by applicable law."
"The Debtors and the proposed transferee must prove by credible evidence that the transaction is proposed in 'good faith' and that it is an arm's-length transaction."
"Because insiders of the Debtors have an interest in the success of ETIRC, the proposed sale must receive careful scrutiny to ensure that the sale has been proposed for fair value and in good faith."
"The relationships of Mr Pieper and Mr Mann to both parties must be fully disclosed and examined...it is essential that there is full disclosure with respect to the parties'relationships, including details of the transactions between the parties, in order for the Court to make a good faith determination as to the purchaser of the sale hearing."
"The auction should be open and should be recorded, in the event that there is a dispute regarding the auction procedures."
The CEO/Chairman of Eclipse can start by explaining why he withheld funds from Eclipse (that Mike McConnell discussed publicly as being available) to put Eclipse into BK and then put in a bid for the company with the same funds he had previously withheld. The CEO can also explain why he is saying Eclipse needs BK now when the CEO had prevously said a judge wouldn't let Eclipse go BK and at a time that he had the funds he is now proposing to buy Eclipse with.
i dunno if any of y'all caught that conference call today... kind of a joke actually.
Oh well, having flown aerobatics and ridden rollercoasters... I think the real ride is just beginning. Hope I don't lose my lunch. Or 1.6 million for that matter.
But even if Roel does jet away with the production rights of Eclipse to Russia, I can say I still will not totally freak out. I mean can anyone think of a European made aircraft that has support in the US?
I can...
Starts with a P....
....and ends with an -ilatus.
And for the few optimists that are still out there, the night is always darkest before the dawn.
And for the few optimists that are still out there, the night is always darkest before the dawn.
On the other hand, sometimes things look darkest just before they go completely and permanently black.
For the rest of us, that's not a light at the end of the tunnel - it's a train.
Pay at the first window, the second window, while you're driving out of the parking lot, and don't forget the lawyers - DEFINITELY pay the lawyers,
DI
ATM said ... You have a few hundred dissastisfied friends seeking a dream jet... that simply does not exist.
Sorry to say.
Actually, ATM, don't be sorry. You are very much correct in your assessment. Between our small group we own/fly/partner in a C501 (nice but burns too much fuel and is too much workload to fly relaxed), a C441-10 Conquest - Awesome plane (a bit dated and too much workload, due to panel age), 2 Barons and a Malibu JetProp conversion (which I simply dislike and don't fly). All these planes are sub $1.5M, up until now didn't have much depreciation, so just cost fuel, maintenance and insurance to keep.
All of us, would sell the lot of planes and move into a $1.3 SEJ or $1.5M personal twin jet in a heart beat. We might keep the Conquest in partnership for the few occasions when we need to carry stuff.
And you are right. We are frustrated. We are pist off, actually, that no one is in a position to take our money in exchange for a simple SEJ.
We never believed Eclipse would do it. We never thought they'd screw up that badly either. We had hopes for the DJet, but it is fat. The SJ50 is too ambitious and will take 5 years in our estimation.
That makes us even more pist off. It looks like in 3 years we'll be flying 2 or 3 fat DJETs with a Conquest in Reserve. And that Conquest can cruise at FL350 and can do 300KTS. So we may fly formation. Mother goose and the little toy jets.
Dave said ... it is essential that there is full disclosure with respect to the parties'relationships, including details of the transactions between the parties,
Dave, what is the legal term for one's relation to one self? After all, RP is the Debtor, the Creditor, the Equity holder, the DIP, the purchaser, etc....
"your honor, we object to allegations that the parties to the transaction are related, on the account that they are all the same person"
EPO said ... can anyone think of a European made aircraft that has support in the US?
Is that a tricky question? There is Pilatus, TBM, Avanti, Diamond (some models), a ton of LSAs, Extra, Airbus (including their biz jets), ATR, etc, etc, etc.
This is what you do if Eclipse tries to repo your plane after you paid for it
Someone mentioned that Eclipse would hook a tow bar to it or some other maneuver. Well, even a tiny chinese woman in this video knows better than letting go of her vehicle.
New post up.
It will be updated, but I'm 'on the road' so it might take 36 hours or so.
Shane
So how's that "sure bet" going?:
One sure way to lose Eclipse: stall
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