HAPPY THANKSGIVING!
It's a fine bright day here in Ireland, and I thought it appropriate to post this little greeting on the blog. I know things have been somewhat gloomy recently, so enjoy this uniquely American holiday with your friends and family.
Best wishes to one and all.
Shane
Just so everyone is clear that customers, suppliers, depositors and yes, staff, are indeed 'skewered' by Chapter 11, herewith the email circulated by Mike McConnell yesterday:-
"Today, Eclipse Aviation started a new era in its relatively (feels like forever, ed) short existence. Eclipse filed for protection in a Delaware court under Chapter 11 of the U. S. Bankruptcy Code. The company is using Section 363 of the U.S. code to sell its assets and a lead bidder, an affiliate of ETIRC Aviation, has filed an offer to purchase the business out of reorganization. As part of this filing, there is sufficient debtor-in-possession (DIP) financing to allow the company to operate until the sale is finalized in January 2009. The process allows for the current company operating under protection to continue the manufacture and support of the Eclipse 500.
While this is an extraordinarily difficult thing to face, (NOT if you've planned it for a long time, ed) it was the best possible choice before the Board of Directors, the senior lenders and the executive management team.
The implications of this action are many and certainly complicated for everyone involved. While we have modeled many different scenarios, at this time, until the sale is finalized, the old company cannot disclose the final plans for things like production, suppliers and deliveries in 2008 and 2009.
This letter will attempt to outline the immediate scenarios for each constituency amongst the customer groups.
Customers who have taken delivery of their aircraft:
During the sale process, the new company intends to operate as a going concern to support the Continued Airworthiness of the fleet. However, there is a different path of interaction between customers and the company operating in reorganization.
Warranty - Warranties are no longer covered by the new company, post petition. Any and all maintenance work performed on aircraft will be on a time and materials basis during debtor-in-possession operations. The new company must decide if it will honor any part of past warranties. Any outstanding warranty claims submitted pre-petition will not be honored by Eclipse or the new company.
If your aircraft is currently in an Eclipse service center for maintenance, the new company will continue to work on it and return it to service, on a time and materials payment basis.
JetComplete® - JetComplete contract obligations are no longer being honored in this phase. It is too early to tell if a new aftermarket product will be offered by the new company. This means that Jeppessen and XM services (for the Garmin 496) will no longer be offered and paid by Eclipse on your behalf once your current subscriptions expire. Iridium services will be maintained by the new company for DSU purposes. Customers will be able to go directly to Jeppesen for service coverage so they are not grounded by out of date databases.
Pratt & Whitney Canada - Those with engine coverage as part of JetComplete will no longer have coverage through JetComplete or PWC under JetComplete. Please contact PWC for coverage in the Eagle Service Plan (ESP).
Spare parts - Debtor-in-possession financing will allow for spare parts to be supplied for continued airworthiness, providing the supplier is willing to continue providing parts to Eclipse while in reorganization. In the event a supplier is not willing to supply parts, the new company will be forced to find an alternate source.
Eclipse service centers - All Eclipse service centers will continue to operate while in debtor-in-possession for service, maintenance events and continued airworthiness.
Authorized service centers - At this time, Eclipse Aviation does not have any authorized service centers although a new service model could be implemented by the new company.
Post Delivery Commitments including modifications - Modification plans at the expense of Eclipse will not be honored in this phase of operations. Eclipse intends to sell services and/or the parts kits to all customers who request to have the final configuration installed on their aircraft. The new company will determine how to provide these mod services to the customer base after the sale.
The third party service centers that were intended to perform these mods will be given every chance to fulfill that opportunity for the new company and the Eclipse 500 customers.
Flight Training and maintenance training - Flight training will continue as planned including recurrency training but while in the debtor-in-possession phase, it is no longer part of the purchase price of the aircraft. The new company must determine what type of structure and inclusion in the delivered price can be maintained. Because JetComplete contracts are no longer valid, those requiring and scheduling recurrent training will pay the retail price of that service. Maintenance training classes will continue as required or requested.
During the sale process, the new company intends to operate as a going concern to support the Continued Airworthiness of the fleet. However, there is a different path of interaction between customers and the company operating in reorganization.
Warranty - Warranties are no longer covered by the new company, post petition. Any and all maintenance work performed on aircraft will be on a time and materials basis during debtor-in-possession operations. The new company must decide if it will honor any part of past warranties. Any outstanding warranty claims submitted pre-petition will not be honored by Eclipse or the new company.
If your aircraft is currently in an Eclipse service center for maintenance, the new company will continue to work on it and return it to service, on a time and materials payment basis.
JetComplete® - JetComplete contract obligations are no longer being honored in this phase. It is too early to tell if a new aftermarket product will be offered by the new company. This means that Jeppessen and XM services (for the Garmin 496) will no longer be offered and paid by Eclipse on your behalf once your current subscriptions expire. Iridium services will be maintained by the new company for DSU purposes. Customers will be able to go directly to Jeppesen for service coverage so they are not grounded by out of date databases.
Pratt & Whitney Canada - Those with engine coverage as part of JetComplete will no longer have coverage through JetComplete or PWC under JetComplete. Please contact PWC for coverage in the Eagle Service Plan (ESP).
Spare parts - Debtor-in-possession financing will allow for spare parts to be supplied for continued airworthiness, providing the supplier is willing to continue providing parts to Eclipse while in reorganization. In the event a supplier is not willing to supply parts, the new company will be forced to find an alternate source.
Eclipse service centers - All Eclipse service centers will continue to operate while in debtor-in-possession for service, maintenance events and continued airworthiness.
Authorized service centers - At this time, Eclipse Aviation does not have any authorized service centers although a new service model could be implemented by the new company.
Post Delivery Commitments including modifications - Modification plans at the expense of Eclipse will not be honored in this phase of operations. Eclipse intends to sell services and/or the parts kits to all customers who request to have the final configuration installed on their aircraft. The new company will determine how to provide these mod services to the customer base after the sale.
The third party service centers that were intended to perform these mods will be given every chance to fulfill that opportunity for the new company and the Eclipse 500 customers.
Flight Training and maintenance training - Flight training will continue as planned including recurrency training but while in the debtor-in-possession phase, it is no longer part of the purchase price of the aircraft. The new company must determine what type of structure and inclusion in the delivered price can be maintained. Because JetComplete contracts are no longer valid, those requiring and scheduling recurrent training will pay the retail price of that service. Maintenance training classes will continue as required or requested.
TRANSLATION = You're shafted
Customers who have paid any deposit including the 60% deposit:
Those customers who have paid a deposit for an Eclipse 500 are unsecured creditors of Eclipse Aviation. If there is a way to offer consideration to those affected depositors, it will be reviewed for consideration but it is not known at this time if it will be assumed by the new company.
Those customers who have paid a deposit for an Eclipse 500 are unsecured creditors of Eclipse Aviation. If there is a way to offer consideration to those affected depositors, it will be reviewed for consideration but it is not known at this time if it will be assumed by the new company.
TRANSLATION = You're in bottom corner
Customer who have asked for a refund:
Customers who have asked for a refund are now an unsecured creditor of Eclipse Aviation.
Customers who have asked for a refund are now an unsecured creditor of Eclipse Aviation.
TRANSLATION = You're toast
Eclipse 400 customers:
Customers who have asked for a refund are now an unsecured creditor of Eclipse Aviation.
Those customers that have not asked for a 400 refund are an unsecured creditor of Eclipse Aviation and must wait until the new company decides whether to honor those deposits. The new company will determine if the Single Engine Jet Concept is a viable aircraft for today’s market.
Customers who have asked for a refund are now an unsecured creditor of Eclipse Aviation.
Those customers that have not asked for a 400 refund are an unsecured creditor of Eclipse Aviation and must wait until the new company decides whether to honor those deposits. The new company will determine if the Single Engine Jet Concept is a viable aircraft for today’s market.
TRANLATION = You're were mugged, get over it
We truly understand that these are tremendously difficult times for you and for our employees. However, please be aware that there is not anything we are holding back from this communication so additional facts or answers will not be available from the teams staffing the phones.
The new company will continue the customer call events to update all customers on status and progress. The next one will be scheduled by the Customer care team.
Michael McConnell
Eclipse Aviation Corporation
President & General Manager
Customer Division
Filing details, thanks to Dave:-
Eclipse Aviation Seeks Court Approval for Restructuring under 363 Sale
Procedures and Debtor in Possession Financing
Affiliate of ETIRC Aviation, VLJ maker's largest shareholder, announces
offer to purchase Eclipse
ALBUQUERQUE, NM - November 25, 2008 - Eclipse Aviation(r), manufacturer
of the world's first very light jet (VLJ), announced today that it is
seeking court approval for debtor-in-possession (DIP) financing and
procedures for the sale of substantially all of its assets under Section
363 of the U.S. Bankruptcy Code. The proposed sale will enable the
business to continue as an industry leader in the manufacture and sale
of VLJs with lower costs and reduced debt liabilities.
Eclipse filed for Chapter 11 protection in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in
Delaware this morning, simultaneously announcing an agreement for the
sale of its assets for a combination of cash, equity and debt to an
affiliate of ETIRC Aviation S.a.r.l., Luxembourg, subject to higher and
better offers. ETIRC Aviation, a principal driver of the VLJ industry
in Europe, is currently Eclipse's largest shareholder. ETIRC Aviation's
Chairman Roel Pieper has been the acting CEO of Eclipse since July 2008
and has served as Eclipse's Chairman since January 2008. The proposed
sale is subject to competitive bidding through a public auction, which
is expected to be completed and a sale finalized in January 2009.
"In the face of unprecedented economic challenges, it is clear that the
sale of the Eclipse business through the Chapter 11 process is the right
course of action to maximize the value of the business, secure its
future and protect the best interests of Eclipse's stakeholders,
including customers, suppliers, employees and creditors," said Roel
Pieper, CEO of Eclipse Aviation. "The successful sale will position the
business for aggressive global expansion, allowing the company to
fulfill its promise and solidify its position as the world's leading
manufacturer of VLJs."
Also announced today, a group of existing Eclipse shareholders and note
holders will provide Eclipse with post-petition, debtor-in-possession
(DIP) financing. This financing will provide Eclipse with sufficient
resources to continue normal business operations through the closing of
the sale. Eclipse has filed a motion with the Court to approve the
financing with a request for an expedited hearing to avoid business
interruption. Once approved, this financing along with other relief
requested from the Court, will position Eclipse to pay wages and
salaries, honor employee benefits, service customer aircraft and
continue manufacturing operations throughout the sale period.
New York-based Greenhill & Co., Inc., a leading independent investment
bank with proven expertise in mergers, acquisitions and restructurings,
has been retained as financial advisor to Eclipse Aviation. Inquiries
into the Eclipse Aviation sale process can be directed to Brad Robins,
Greenhill & Co., Inc. at 212-389-1567 or brobins@greenhill.com.
and
Eclipse Aviation Announces Departure of Peg Billson
VLJ leader activates search for new head of manufacturing
ALBUQUERQUE, NM - November 25, 2008 - Eclipse Aviation, manufacturer of
the world's first very light jet (VLJ), today announced that Peg Billson
has voluntarily left her position as president and general manager of
the company's Manufacturing Division to pursue other career
opportunities.
"We thank Peg for her contributions to Eclipse, and wish her the best as
she takes on new challenges," said Roel Pieper, CEO of Eclipse Aviation.
Ms. Billson's position will be replaced with interim manufacturing
oversight provided by Eclipse's senior supply chain, engineering,
production and flight operations leaders.
The new company will continue the customer call events to update all customers on status and progress. The next one will be scheduled by the Customer care team.
Michael McConnell
Eclipse Aviation Corporation
President & General Manager
Customer Division
Eclipse Aviation Corporation
and
Pronto Aircraft Corporation
of
2503 Clark Carr Loop, SE
Albuquerque, NM
a Corporation (including LLC and LLP)
Petition for Chapter 11
Estimated number of creditors, between 5,001 and 10,000
Estimated Assets, between $100,000,001 and $500 million
Estimated Liabilities (consolidated, book value), more than $1 billion
The petition is signed by Roel Peiper as CEO and dated today, 25th November 2008
Other details from the form include:-
1. There is a bankruptcy case concerning debtor's affiliate, general partner, or partnership pending in the District (Delaware)
2. The lawyers are Young Conaway Stargett & Taylor LLP of Wilmington DE.
3. The largest creditor, listed at $92.3 million, is Kings Road Investments Ltd. of Madision Ave. New York.
4. The total amount owed to bond holders (including Kings Road) is listed at $494.9 million.
5. The total amount owed to larger trade creditors ($2 million plus) is listed at $164.8 million.
6. The total amount owed to customers ($2 million plus) is listed at $29.7 million.
That's the 'topline' information, which I post to advise the widest possible audience.
Peg has left, and ETRIC have made the first bid to purchase the assets. The sale will need to complete in January of 2009, subject to other, higher bids. I'm sure we'll find out what ETRIC have offered, and where the funds are coming from to support the bid.
Al Mann and ETRIC have provided DIP (Debtor in Possession) financing of $12 million, with a facility up to $20 million.
The 'top three' for bond holders, trade creditors and customers (expressed in millions) are as follows:-
Bond holders
1. Kings Road Investments of Madison Ave New York for $92.3
2. KBK Master Fund of Crescent Court, Dallas for $84.9
3. Citadel Horizons of South Dearborn, Chicago for $53.4
Trade Creditors
1. Fuji Heavy Industries, Tochigi-ken, Japan for $31.8
2. Hampson Aerospace, Grand Prairie, Texas for $31.3, although we know the history here.
3. Pratt & Whitney Canada, Quebec, for $30.1
Customers
1. DayJet, Boca Raton, for $6.2, even though we'll never get to the bottom of this...
2. ATASAY-MyJet Aviation, Turkey, for $5.0
3. Triac, Nicosia, Cyprus for $4.3
Sundry amounts (above $2 million)
1. UT Finance, East Hart, CT, for $13.5 million, which is linked to DayJet
2. Irell & Manella LLP, Avenue of the Stars, Los Angeles, for $3.2 million of 'legal services'
Grand total
$706.1 million, and counting. Clearly there is a lot more to uncover. But it's a start.
Press Releases issued by EAC today
Eclipse Aviation Seeks Court Approval for Restructuring under 363 Sale
Procedures and Debtor in Possession Financing
Affiliate of ETIRC Aviation, VLJ maker's largest shareholder, announces
offer to purchase Eclipse
ALBUQUERQUE, NM - November 25, 2008 - Eclipse Aviation(r), manufacturer
of the world's first very light jet (VLJ), announced today that it is
seeking court approval for debtor-in-possession (DIP) financing and
procedures for the sale of substantially all of its assets under Section
363 of the U.S. Bankruptcy Code. The proposed sale will enable the
business to continue as an industry leader in the manufacture and sale
of VLJs with lower costs and reduced debt liabilities.
Eclipse filed for Chapter 11 protection in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in
Delaware this morning, simultaneously announcing an agreement for the
sale of its assets for a combination of cash, equity and debt to an
affiliate of ETIRC Aviation S.a.r.l., Luxembourg, subject to higher and
better offers. ETIRC Aviation, a principal driver of the VLJ industry
in Europe, is currently Eclipse's largest shareholder. ETIRC Aviation's
Chairman Roel Pieper has been the acting CEO of Eclipse since July 2008
and has served as Eclipse's Chairman since January 2008. The proposed
sale is subject to competitive bidding through a public auction, which
is expected to be completed and a sale finalized in January 2009.
"In the face of unprecedented economic challenges, it is clear that the
sale of the Eclipse business through the Chapter 11 process is the right
course of action to maximize the value of the business, secure its
future and protect the best interests of Eclipse's stakeholders,
including customers, suppliers, employees and creditors," said Roel
Pieper, CEO of Eclipse Aviation. "The successful sale will position the
business for aggressive global expansion, allowing the company to
fulfill its promise and solidify its position as the world's leading
manufacturer of VLJs."
Also announced today, a group of existing Eclipse shareholders and note
holders will provide Eclipse with post-petition, debtor-in-possession
(DIP) financing. This financing will provide Eclipse with sufficient
resources to continue normal business operations through the closing of
the sale. Eclipse has filed a motion with the Court to approve the
financing with a request for an expedited hearing to avoid business
interruption. Once approved, this financing along with other relief
requested from the Court, will position Eclipse to pay wages and
salaries, honor employee benefits, service customer aircraft and
continue manufacturing operations throughout the sale period.
New York-based Greenhill & Co., Inc., a leading independent investment
bank with proven expertise in mergers, acquisitions and restructurings,
has been retained as financial advisor to Eclipse Aviation. Inquiries
into the Eclipse Aviation sale process can be directed to Brad Robins,
Greenhill & Co., Inc. at 212-389-1567 or brobins@greenhill.com.
and
Eclipse Aviation Announces Departure of Peg Billson
VLJ leader activates search for new head of manufacturing
ALBUQUERQUE, NM - November 25, 2008 - Eclipse Aviation, manufacturer of
the world's first very light jet (VLJ), today announced that Peg Billson
has voluntarily left her position as president and general manager of
the company's Manufacturing Division to pursue other career
opportunities.
"We thank Peg for her contributions to Eclipse, and wish her the best as
she takes on new challenges," said Roel Pieper, CEO of Eclipse Aviation.
Ms. Billson's position will be replaced with interim manufacturing
oversight provided by Eclipse's senior supply chain, engineering,
production and flight operations leaders.
Clearly, this is going to be expanded as more information reaches the blog.
Shane
738 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 601 – 738 of 738Baron ... my "dear" baron ...
first PLEASE allow me to show your prose to a few friends and colleagues ... PLEASE !!
we haven't had a good laugh in a while , so....
then ,
do NOT mix-up everything !
a)Julius and I made comments about the fact that in OLD Europe having a firm managed by a guy filling for BK after so many years of close co-operation (what was the previous name of Etrick ? =Eclipse International , no ?)with former CEO and pretending he didn't know what was under the blanket (when too late ...off-course) and NO problem Mr Judge just allow me to screw 1(2?)B$+ of creditors that i can start again (pointlessly?does it sell? how much more would be needed to FINISH?) is :
for Julius : nearly criminal ...
for me : F****G hilarious ...!
b)you see , my friend , the world is multi-polar (contrary to UNI-polar , something some seems to loose of sight too often !) you do whatever you wish in your home ...
AT THE ONLY CONDITION : what you do in good or in bad has no effects on your neighbors ...!
can you stand NOT being the center of world attention ?
c) your mixing-up with short-term VS shorter-term ...
you should NOT get confused between Reactiveness and planning/anticipation ...
Reactiveness (a very good US value) should NEVER BE MADE to the expenses of everyday Joe (in that case it is Mismanagement!and the Today situation ...) but ONLY a way to correct A planning/anticipation/forecast/whatever-you-want-to-call-it gone slightly wrong ... (if it is really gone too wrong , it only means your system of free ...is NOT working)
like you wrote about Oil be once again under 50$/barrel a good reason for an orgy of wasting it ...
i see in this a very good reason to find other way , now , before this very same orgy of Oil is producing exactly the same effects than a few months ago ...
(and have everyday peoples struggling with the incompetency of planners , too busy that they are of making the most now ,when everybody else is going to pay 3 tomorrow because they tried to make 1 today)
you see , this is probably the biggest difference ...
you react , you go from pure Nirvana of overspending ,over-consuming ...
to deepest and darkest state of depression ...
i prefer to plan , not to blind myself about my own importance in the today-world,to be relax in front of all marketing stunts explaining you why it is SO important to be seen as " so cool" ...
in return i don't suffer from depression ...
if our lives would be sinusoid :
yours would go as up as it goes down ...
mine would be more flat ...
may be not as glamorous as yours , but peaceful ... and WHAT I WANT in which you have nothing to say or do (as much as I leave you free of your choice !)
d) a free lesson ? free ???? lesson ...
well , it would be almost true if to "make" the lesson the BIGGEST PILE of debts that the world have EVER faced (in all mankind history,all times , all together before...) would have not been created to do it ...
you see it as free ...
i see that as a liability for kids left after us ... even if I don't have any kids , it doesn't prevent me to think about kids future ...i am not a partisan of "Champagne & Caviar now ... bills later!"
how about you ?
e) I never presented Gold as a way to MAKE money (BTW if you are so successful , why are you always trying to make a buck ? i am relax , having some means is not a torment for me...)
i wrote that in the situation of now , Tangible assets (anything not being on paper , fruit of a fashion or desire to show-off)
are going to be the way to keep some value in time facing us ...
look around you , the next step is going to be either
Over-inflation = a direct fruit of Bush/Greenspan/Bernanke policy of multiplying the M3 to lure their own peoples into believing " a motor having too much lubricant is a good motor!"
(ask any mechanic if it is true !)
The FPJ nightmare is a very application of this NON-Working principle : 3 Billions $ = NOT a SINGLE one finished and about more problems about it than solutions ...
or
Deflation = the other pendant of Inflation ... when price of things go TOO high and unlike what everybody playing this way think or would like ...
Prices CANNOT go up eternally !
think of an Over-inflated ball , when it is too much it has to explode or to deflate ...
and even if it deflate slowly , it leaves many traces of precedent state ... a bit like a pregnant woman is having those "funny" colors of skin on side of her belly when close to giving birth ... (since you know french : vergetures )
face it , man , you see your system , your way of living and your ideas as the best of the best ...
well ... it is your choice ... just DO NOT TRY to impose it to others ... and to try to convince yourself in trying to convince others ...!
Ps: since i bought gold (unlike you ! did you put any money in Fpj ??) the value went up over 40% free of taxes (I do not want to talk of Profit as i didn't want to do a profit , i do NOT need to always look for making a buck to afford my lifestyle!)... when the stock-market (temple of free-market has already lost close to 50%+ )
off-course , it has not been made overnight ...
benefit of Not-short-term ...!
sorry i forgot :
about spending times in each others places ....
don't be too sure !!
in fact , i have been offered the US citizenship a few years ago ...
i turned it down = NO point to have it !
The $ Value :
probably one of the biggest joke of century ...
while it has all criteria to be worthless ...
it is now back to an almost parity !
1°)that is the joke , the spread-factor for exportations is gone (first you need to export something ...)
2°)the economic situation in others countries is not as good as before , thanks to Subprime ...
(or when everybody has a house : how to give jobs to building firms ? sell houses to the ones who cannot pay for it ! = very-short-term policy!)
3°) probably the best part of the joke ...
with a valus of $ going up ...
you will pay back your deficits at FULL PRICE ...!
OOOUUUCCHH , that's gonna hurts ...
Fred,
bonjour!
some Americans had a spoiled turkey - or something like that....
That happens once and a while even in Europe...
You have noticed - a member of the BoD is gone and RP does not say "thank you"!
Julius
Baron,
That’s not what the AD says, by the way are you out of the FAA to properly interpret the meaning of it?
Exact quote from AD:
LIMIT THE MAXIMUM OPERATING
ALTITUDE TO 37,000 FEET (11277M) PRESSURE ALTITUDE."
AND we have NOT seen the paperwork out of the Fort Worth Airplane Certification Office for the Alternative Methods Of Compliance.
And further more Baron, If you have to resort to the semantics of my incomplete knowledge of the EA500 to insult me in defense of your buddy Ken, then I guess you're a "spin" salesman for Eclipse too. And by the way your response smacks of an alias posters style that was removed by Shane some time ago. I tell many people two things about myself: “Do not mistake my kindness for weakness” and “Do not interpret my laid back southern style as ignorance“…..You know nothing about me other than what I have volunteered on this blogg so far.
E.B.P,
I gotta agree with you there on the awards....
;)
Have outa' town business for 5 days...back at ya'll later....
Gutten Tag , mein freund ...
if only they knew ...! ;-))
if the turkey is spoiled , that is not much of a problem ...
when one cannot (or doesn't want) see that it is spoiled ...
then everybody is in for big troubles ...! ;-))
RP didn't say "Thank you" ???
what a distasteful lack of manners ...! ;-))
Fred,
what a distasteful lack of manners ...!
you are right - times get harder...
Even St. Moritz suffers a little bit: Russians normally making reservation for rooms for 5k€ per night cancel their stay. But the are other capable customers. Unfortunatlely the Russians also spend a bit - just only two pizzas and a bottle of wine for 5k€. That is more difficult to replace.
Perhaps they also want to save some money for their FPJs made in ULWW.
What happens if the ETIRC affiliate will only show 100M$ after the auction?
RP will have some funny ideas to reduce the bid - legally, in good'ol business manner!
Are there any examples?
Julius
others legal ways of doing so ?
i would say :
piss-off everybody ...
let the whole thing go down the river ...
Ch11 transformed in Ch7 (as far as i understood !)
pick-up the remnants for whatever cash you propose ...
this is supposed to be an auction , so is there any minimum ? for creditors after a Ch7 , it is share whatever has been harvested in the sale ...?
only one risk for RP : that someone even more crazy accept to pay his bid + 1$ ...!
that is why it could be important to piss-off every and all would-be buyer ...
in term of product-image ...
well , forget about it...i am just being silly ...
it couldn't be worse , anyway !! ;-))
as for the russians : i have a very good friend who went to the "millionaire Fair" in Moscow ...
(i have been there only once ... too many girls dressed too short looking for a "sponsor" and i believe that money is a bit like Jam = the less you have , the more you spread it ! :-) )
word was on all mouths ...
"what is going to happen to us in a few months ??"
and that there is very good bargain to be done around Moscow , so many to believe themselves to be rich enough to build Castle ...
now the pumpkin has burst , so the unfinished basements are to be sold for a handful of cash ....!
May be we should notice RP ?
since russians are selling unfinished Castles ... may be it can be exchanged for an UNfinished plane ??? ;-))
Damn capitalists!!!!
I am glad socialism is working for you guys in Euroland... Gives you a nice flat lifestyle.
julius , i forgot :
piss-off everyone =
state that you are spending (or at disposition) 12 Millions $ (can be extended to 20) as DIP for continuation of business ...
12 M$ ??
for ONE month to keep a firm producing absolutely NADA (all debts being freeze by the BK)
HOW many staff ?
What for? (very little chance they will ever work again in THIS plant!)
How much Rent ?
that seems to be a very expensive way of doing nothing ...!!!
eclipseMAchiN
well , yes we have a nice little flat life ...
you see the point is to be happy with what you have ...
not to be unhappy trying to reach for things you cannot have ... (like a finished Fpj !)
as for socialism , don't worry ... your turn is coming ! ;-))
Fred,
that reminds me of the DDR:
People had work, got paid, but did not go to work - there were enough people working -, instead they organized the stuff they just needed. Ok, that was not valid for everyone!
At EAC, sales reps, people of the delivery will have hardly any work. Who wants to buy a fpj, who wants to sell a fpj, saying at the end "sorry,I cannot guarantee anything".... That's a very bad situation for the employees...
Old castles, chateaux (real) have a value - but fpj-like castles are good for action films, I do not know.
But RP maybe... for farmland close to a big market... together with the Citigroup...
Julius
EPx,
"I am glad socialism is working for you guys in Euroland... Gives you a nice flat lifestyle."
----------------------------------
"Median Wages have been on the decline in the United States since 1974.".
U.S. Standard of Living
You were saying something about a flat economy???
Ja , julius ...
too many to be fooled in between :
Keeping or Having Value
and
Making Money ...!
it is called "the suit complex" a quite good way to explain it ...
in 1900 one ounce of gold was buying you a nice suit ...
in 2008 , one ounce of Gold is still buying a nice suit ...
AU oz in 1900 = 35 $
AU oz today = 780 $
did i miss something ??? ;-)))
EPOMSIV,
I am glad socialism is working for you guys in Euroland... Gives you a nice flat lifestyle.
you got it - the first part is correct!!!
Keep in mind, captitalism, communism, ... are also working for us (no monoliners!). Some guys call it "best practice", "best of breed"...
St. Moritz, Kitzbühl, Val d'Isere.....- too many - are examples for our flat lifestyles!
But we digress....
just other countries - other customs!
Julius
on the same way of thinking :
it remind me of a trip i did to Poland in 1982 /1983 (do not remember the date ...)
i bought a crappy Renault to go there , even if it was brand-new , it was a crap car ...
i was invited to stay with a friend's family ...
during Christmas the mother offered me a plastic-spoon ...
because she KNEW in the west , we didn't have plastic ... (??)
i took her in the car , she burst in tears seeing the whole car was covered with it ...
Now if our friends form over the pound are so Glad to possess our Socialist-Produkt** , i wonder what they are missing , there ....
** Socialist-Produkt = Bmw , Mercedes , Porsche , Audi ...
Thanks Fred-
I fixed the link.
(For our fellow bloggers, I will note that sometimes a word processor automatically adjusts quotation marks to "opening" and "closing", but this seems to goof up the HTML, so it's important to make sure the goats (I mean quotes) are not messed up).
---------------------------------
BTW,
Regarding things you might have missed since 1990...
Significant Events in US Domestic and Foreign Policy
Less Significant Events in US Domestic and Foreign Policy
------------------------------
...both are involved in ecomics. One has a graduate degree from the London School of Economics. The other sued the US governement for $600K. Would our viewing audience to guess which is which?
:)
Billy ...
not very difficult answer ...
Image ..
everything in Image !!! ;-))
On November 25, 2008, Eclipse Aviation Corporation ("Eclipse"), a customer of LaBarge, Inc. (the "Company") announced that it filed a petition for relief under Chapter 11 of the United States Bankruptcy Code. Based on motions filed with the bankruptcy court, it appears that a major shareholder of Eclipse may seek to acquire the assets of Eclipse out of the bankruptcy estate and continue operations. As noted in its prior filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, the Company faces exposure relating to the collection of trade receivables from Eclipse and the recovery of the full value of inventory for orders related to the Eclipse very light jet program. The Company estimates its current exposure in the Eclipse bankruptcy proceeding to be approximately $3.8 million in trade receivables and approximately $4.0 million in inventory, for an aggregate estimated exposure of approximately $7.8 million. In addition, the Company's current backlog related to this program of approximately $39.6 million may be substantially reduced.
In the event that Eclipse is able to continue operations, the Company believes that there is a reasonable likelihood its exposure in the Eclipse bankruptcy may be reduced. The Company also anticipates that in the event of a continuation of Eclipse's operations, if any, there will likely be significant further delays in the Company's shipments on the Eclipse program, which have been on hold since August, 2008. If Eclipse is unable to continue its operations, the Company may not collect the trade receivables or recover the full value of the inventory related to this program, which could result in a charge to earnings of approximately $7.8 million.
LABARGE INC 8K
Fred,
i wonder what they are missing , there ....
caviar!
When the Russians were around Berlin, you paid about 50 DEM just for 500gr Russian caviar in Westberlin - but only with the right connections.
In this case the nice suit complex
does not fit.
Hmmm, the fpj is like a Ferrari -
no FIKI/snow chains, place for boots, skis, snowboards...
and in summer no place for the stuff the common-law spouse wants to buy.
Ohhh thats's a real advantage...
or a reason for smaller gifts...
Julius
julius ...
it is still about the same in Russland ...
when i go along the Volga River , from Samara to astrakhan , i am used to eat Caviar every morning for breakfast ...
last time i went there , in 10 days i have been eating 1,600 KG , you should try the fresh one (not the one to be exported , for me since i know the fresh : it is puke !) very simply on bread and butter for breakfast ...wunderschoen !!!
when i am in Moscow , i do not do it , never sure of quality ... and a kilo is about 2000/3000 € !!
in Frankfurt or Paris , i am not saying this to anyone , they would think i am crazy or lying ...
1 kilo Caviar in Petrossian (Paris) 5000 to 7500 €
and about the Ferrari being too small to take wife and big gift ....
what was the name of the car made after war with Messerchmidt cockpits ??? (i am sure you remember the egg-shaped funny car , you had to get in or out from the front )
may be it is a good way to "recycle" the Fpj ??? ;-))
Fred,
My uncle had one of these things...
Disruptive Transportation, circa 1950
I don't talk no German, but I agree with "the Sargwagen"...
I think all that FSW technology might have a bight future...
The Future of FSW
! They are still in business !
(with 400 employees, maybe a merger is in order... :)
fred
You have described the BMW “Isetta”. The Messerschmitt “kr200" is another, with similar characteristics:
http://microcarmuseum.com/tour/isetta-bubble-zmold.html
http://microcarmuseum.com/tour/messerschmitt-kr200-1955-2.html
gadfly
Thanks for the correction Gadfly! (I've never seen the one you correctly identify- I think the EA-500 would be a nice family-sized derivative of this though- maybe leave the vertical tail in place for a cool "tail fin"- add a couple of Cadillac-style "bullets" on it...)
(Think Lexus will ever try something like that? I mean, if BMW did... :)
(I cut and pasted your links):
Isetta-Bubble Car
Messershmitt-KR200-1955-2
Billy ...
don't be a bad boy ! ;-)
we said "Practical Ideas" for the poor BK judge sorting this mess out ...
i am not sure that a "trailer-transformed FPJ" would be easy to park with the wings on ...
and without the wings , i would be afraid every other parts would be falling off ...
Fred,
BWM Isetta
or
Messerschmitt Kabinenroller
both of them were peculiar at that time.
But BMW offered more space, a better entrance and survived in the automotive sector.
Messerschmitt gave up the production of cars and is now - after some mergers - part of EADS.
Julius
Mr Gadfly :
i feel honored you share a bit of your wisdom with me ....
i didn't remember the name , only the laugh i had when kid in Germany ... when seeing one !
thank you !
i made a mistake ...
the Isetta was the one you opened the front to get in or out ...
the Kabinenroller had a different way (if i remember well ?) the top was to be open in an upward manner ... a bit like the expensive Mercedes ...!
easybake
The incident of which you speak involves an aircraft . . . part Lockheed “Orion” (fuselage), and part Lockheed “Explorer” (wings) . . . recovered from two wrecks. Wiley Post, the famous “one eyed” pilot, had put this thing together, to explore a route for the airlines across Alaska, to Siberia. His passenger was the famous Will Rogers. They had flown together, countless times. Time: August, 1935.
Coming down on a lake in bad weather (normal for Alaska), they decided to go on to Barrow, just another fifteen miles. Overloaded, oversized “wrong floats”, forward tanks “empty” (Wiley forgot to switch to rear tanks), they took off . . . and the 550hp “Wasp” quit . . . fuel starved, and the aircraft not yet up to a safe speed. “CG” most likely out of limits . . . tail heavy, the plane stalled . . . came down on a wing . . . both men killed instantly.
Here you have two men, with exceptional records . . . overlooking a simple thing or two, in the stress of the moment . . . and the story (theirs) ends.
Here’s a good source of information:
http://www.acepilots.com/post.html
It’s “OK” to be a little insane . . . that’s a requirement to be a pilot, or a submariner . . . or even start your own business. (The doctor in sub school told us that if we were “normal”, we would not qualify for the “silent service”.) But it’s never “OK” to be stupid. And it’s usually a series of innocent looking little “stupid” mistakes that will get you “real dead”.
The folks that continue to support the “Eclipse” seem to have a common characteristic . . . their support is mostly emotional, and seldom deals with the realities of a grossly overweight/unfinished aircraft. I guess the old saying holds: “Ignorance is bliss!”
gadfly
(easybake: By one method or another, if we can get the "Eclipse" crowd, to at least gain an understanding of their little bird, we might just save a life or two. That's a worthy goal!)
goat
Years ago, I had to have a BMW . . . eventually owned two of them. Each was fun to drive . . . and very expensive to maintain. Then I learned about Toyotas . . . and presently own two (both are Lexus) . . . and enjoy them because they DO NOT copy BMW.
gadfly
(And based on our old "1986 Honda Accord Lxi" . . . still runs and handles very well . . . I expect great things in the Honda Jet.)
Al Mann just filed a demand for service of pleadings.
Hi Dave,
Thankfully, I have never been through a BK, nor been associated with a firm actively involved in one.
So, I take it Al Mann's action is significant, but:
"What the heck does THAT ("demand for service of pleadings") mean?
p.s.- am I more egregiously incorrect than usual in my analysis of the significance of "current backlog related to this program of approximately $39.6 million"
Thanks to anyone who will explain this for us simpletons.
(I've got the Wedge-to-English translation algorithm down, but haven't got the legaleze-to-simpleton translator working quite yet...)
"What the heck does THAT ("demand for service of pleadings") mean?
I believe it is asking that all the BK filings be sent to him. I can't say that it is significant itself, but I gather in reading the various BK documents that Roel and Al aren't exactly working as a team. I say that because if the ETIRC sale falls through, Al becomes the first to get paid back with the DIP. To me that gives me the impression that although they are working together right now, they aren't a team.
So Al's a little "concerned" about Roel's integrity... is the way I read it...
Thanks Dave.
I suppose since EAC-BK just filed the paperwork on Tuesday, and with the Thanksgiving holiday, this might not be so unusual, given everyone "getting back up to speed".
p.s.- I pulled down my earlier comment about "current backlog related to this program of approximately $39.6 million" and the number of a/c on order this would correspond to.
I re-read your earlier post, and realized it was (clearly) referring to the LaBarge backlog (not Eclipse backlog).
BEG, the $39.5M exposure is for the vendor's backlog from Eclipse, not EAC's exposure to its' own backlog. IOW, they have $7M at risk from inventory and receivables, and a further $35+M in expected orders that will not likely materialize any time soon.
I see Mann as a willing but suspicious participant with RP, NOT a partner in any sense.
Mann has more coin into this than any person other than possibly RP (AFTER the DIP offer anyway) - and it is HIS money, not OPM like RP.
EAC would be better off under Mann than RP in my estimation - by all accounts Mann is the guy who keeps making sure the working stiffs don't get stiffed, and has been for years now.
Question: Can an Eclipse fly in a straight line?
Answer: Click
Hi CWMOR,
Thanks regarding LaBarge!
I dug up an article, which seems to imply $10M for 80 ship sets- that comes out to $130K per ship set- which seems high for wire harnesses- maybe it includes initial engineering or qualification, or something else.
"The new order will continue production at LaBarge's Berryville, Ark., and Joplin, Mo., facilities through late 2008."
Indeed...
LaBarge Wiring Harnesses
Orville,
That's crooked as a dog's back leg!
(Ah, I was not referring to Wedge there...)
Wow BEG, at $130K each, LaBarge's backlog exposure is over 300 shipsets - someone was drinking the koolaid when they set their backlog targets.
I just saw that you corrected your question.
Seeing Orville's post, I was wondering what is the state of radar for the Eclipse fleet?
Did they get that Japanese radar working?
Wow BEG, at $130K each, LaBarge's backlog exposure is over 300 shipsets - someone was drinking the koolaid when they set their backlog targets.
Between the A/R and the backlog that works out to just about 365 or 1 per day for a year. Eclipse had been turning out just about 1 per day, just they had the slight problem of not paying their bills. If someone is willing to supply a cash arsonist, Eclipse can [unprofitably] turn out the volume.
$130k per plane for wiring harnesses... hmm... no way this is right... is 10% of the SELLING price of the plane
If someone is willing to supply a cash arsonist, Eclipse can [unprofitably] turn out the volume.
Provided none of them have to actually be complete aircraft.
Provided none of them have to actually be complete aircraft.
Theoretically speaking (as in no FAA actions limiting the function/performance of the aircraft), if Eclipse was to make more aircraft and the suppliers remained the same, the aircraft would be near-complete. I think all that would be needed is going from Avio 1.5 to Avio 2.0 where it would basically be there. Given what was said at the congressional hearings that the VLJ type/production certification processes have changed and that EclipseJet would be a new company (along with the certification process happening under FAA management from a different administration), that could change things...potentially drastically.
JH and Orville . . . for the record, you simply give the “gadfly” a platform, to preach a sermon . . . so I’ll continue . . . and don't take anything personally from here on in:
It could be that the "track" through the air was relatively “dead straight” . . . obviously! We simply don’t have enough data to make an intelligent judgement . . . and “we weren’t there”, so cannot understand the conditions faced by the pilot. But this illustrates the problems of so-called arguments used to “prove” any number of points.
‘Lest we fall into the trap of the “diehards”, it is better to back-off, now and then . . . and resist the temptation of the quick hit in an argument. It’s easy, to use a “half truth”, like our diehard friend, to shift meanings, and claim the “opponent” failed to ask the right questions . . . which takes an “IQ” something barely “north” of a freshly plucked radish.
Frankly, I’d much rather lose a battle now and then . . . even at the risk of looking like a fool, than to lose the war, over some sense of false pride.
Remember . . . this “game” is not a “software thing”, a computer problem, with the worst results being “running out of RAM”, or a loss of data . . . where the loser can say, “Oh well!”, and come back another day. We’re are dealing with a “real” flying machine, with “real people”, and “real families” . . . that must forever deal with the win or loss of those that put their trust in this flying machine.
OK . . . that’s enough for now.
gadfly
(The German company, that makes all stove-tops for virtually all electric ranges, “Schott Glass”, is building a new facility in the Albuquerque area for “solar collectors” . . . they’re hiring about 350 people. So, for some, there are new opportunities to learn new trades . . . and to move on. The secret, here, it to have an enquiring mind, and excitement about plunging into new technology, and AGGRESSIVELY applying your skills, to a new challenge. Walk in, bathed, shaved, and well dressed . . . tell them frankly that you are here to learn about things like “glass with a low rate of thermal expansion”, etc., having done your homework in advance . . . and put in an application. As an employer, I hired people that showed an interest in what my company is “all about”, and that key ingredient . . . a willingness . . . no, a “DESIRE” to learn, and move ahead. That’s what a legitimate employer wants . . . notice I said “legitimate” . . . as opposed to Eclipse, which from the start showed little intention of being legitimate.)
Dave,
Regarding PC to Eclipse-2.0, I fear it might be a case of "out with the old, in with the new"
Pete "The Fixer" Dominici is retiring from the Senate.
Bill "The Toad" Richardson is coming in as Secretary of Commerce.
The Fixer is senator from NM
The Toad is govenor of NM
Gadfly,
You are treading on dangerous ground here:
"The secret, here, it to have an enquiring mind, and excitement about plunging into new technology, and AGGRESSIVELY applying your skills, to a new challenge. Walk in, bathed, shaved, and well dressed . . ."
Are you suggesting Wedge should visit Schott Glass !?!
Jim,
The radar (both suppliers) has been working well since AvioNG shipped, back at s/n 105, if memory serves. I'm pretty sure that some of the earlier aircraft were upgraded as well.
Shane
GADFLY...
How can anyone not like you?
You are an amazing person
Regarding PC to Eclipse-2.0, I fear it might be a case of "out with the old, in with the new"
There is one big difference - maybe two - in that in the past Eclipse was primarilly owned by people/businesses in the US (ETIRC has the largest equity stake, but more has been from domestic US customers, domestic US suppliers and domestic US financiers), whereas under the new proposal, Eclipse would primarilly be owned by foreign business/people and primarilly be targeting foreign business/people. Giving Eclipse special treatment a second time around would be way more risky than when it was purely a domestic matter - look at all the trouble that was caused with Dubai Ports World with the merger and EADS with the tanker. Also if Eclipse loses domestic US suppliers and gets more and more Russian/foreign suppliers, that's even further reason not to give them any special treatment as that is less of a threat to US jobs if EclipseJet doesn't get TC/PC. The more foreign Eclipse becomes, the less there will be those who feel it is their patriotic duty to protect Eclipse and in fact those same people could become hostile to Eclipse for the same reason they supported Eclipse in the past.
way to think about EAC is general, and you would be spot on...
"bait and switch"
This applies to all aspects of EAC:
product offering
pricing
schedule
TC/PC - think IOUs
support
training
supplier relations
HR
investor relations
gov't relations
customer relations
PR - orders, etc...
One unbelieveably consistant theme through the $3B 13 year history, and ALL aspects of the business
Why should this BK/sale be any different?
Expect a SURPRISE!!! involving a switch... for sure...
?? A Mann-churian Candidate ??
(sorry :)
...I've thought Hawker-Beech would make a nice match, but that's probably not disruptive enough...
(If that happened, and if Hawker-Beech-Eclipse built a replica of the Gee-Bee racer, then we would have a:
"HBE GEE BEE")
(sorry again...)
Go Fast, 1932 Style
O’Donnell expects the airport will continue its relationship with Eclipse Aviation, which recently filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. Eclipse continues to lease a maintenance hangar at the airport that employs about two dozen workers, but owes about $60,000 in back rent. O’Donnell said the back payments should be settled in January.
Albany airport adopts $48.3M budget
PMI Media tracks the VLJ market by analyzing supplier order backlogs and purchasing trends by air taxi, corporate and individual aircraft operators. “Given the current difficult market circumstances it is difficult to see how more than one or two new aircraft entrants–outside established aircraft manufacturers such as Embraer, Diamond, Piper and Cessna–will be able to survive a prolonged period of market uncertainty,” said PMI Media editorial director Philip Butterworth-Hayes.
AIN:PMI More Bearish in Latest VLJ Forecast
Etirc Aviation chairman Roel Pieper, also chairman of Eclipse, believes his group is well positioned to purchase Eclipse Aviation and he doesn’t expect any of the major manufacturers to bid. The bankruptcy option was unavoidable, he said.
“We came to the conclusion that the belief in the product is there, the market opportunity is there, but the financial burden…was just too much. Amid efforts to secure more funds, he said, “The market just crashed right in front of us.
Although the bankruptcy filing negates existing contracts with deposit-holders, refund requestors, suppliers and current customers under warranty, Pieper said Eclipse must work with all stakeholders. “We will clearly honor and be fair to the customers in the best way possible,” he said, “and we’re going to be very fair to the suppliers.
We have to find a way to go forward together.”
AIN:Eclipse Plan Approved, Factory Doors Still Open
The Law West of the Pecos says "No stinkin' AD"
The AD isn't in effect yet. That being said, I think it is unwise to fly the aircraft that high given how Eclipse is in BK and they have a tendency to blame the customer first anyway.
dave :
first , let me thanks for the mass of infos you're providing ...
if i read the last link of your post "Eclipse Approved plan"
i read that EAC has still 954 employees ...
anyone knows WHAT they can be doing ??
it is not against those employees ... great if some still make some earnings ... i just wonder about the sanity of this ??? since they obviously don't sell for a long time , they don't assemble , they don't upgrade , they don't train , they don't receive new parts or components (if they would = blunt stupidity from furnisher)
so why is the need for 954 ?
is that a "bold mistake" from news maker ? a blunder from RP ? or the result of someone who has lost tracks of who is in and who is gone(already)?
if that's so , is there any kind of rule if a firm keep an "inadequate" number of staff in the BK proceeding ?
Mr Gad ...
you did it again !
you spread your wisdom on us ...
I agree 150% with your view about hiring staff !
i had to recruit staff , made all possible mistakes on matter ...
now if i need someone , i start turning down all the ones looking "too good" for the job ...
then all the ones looking too sure of their job skills ...
then usually i turn for the one(s) telling me "i am probably not your best choice , i probably don't know as much as others ... but i am very interested and more than willing to learn or share different views "
since i do it this way , never had to regret any chosen person i pushed in the ring ...!
billy :
"demand for service of pleadings
i have seen this before ...
it is the communication of all the "paper statements" the judge will have as a "Non varietur" pieces of information ...
typically , it is to allow all participants to have a "equal" access to all documents ...
in this case , to me , it's a bit odd = they are supposed to be "on the same side" ...
unless one is trying to find out what the other one (eventually) hasn't said as part of "normal business relations" ...!
(like to ask for the minutes of the court-case to see if there is any discrepancy in between what is said , what is supposed to be said and what is really said !)
Mr Gad :
i agree with you !
BMW are fun to drive (with a slight reserve on wet or icy roads)
expensive to keep ... (bloody Germans ;-) )
what the car dealer probably didn't tell you :
this kind of car is NOT supposed to be kept for too long ...
i usually do not keep cars for more than 18/24 months ...
it is better to loose "a bit" on the resale , than to loose an arm and a leg in trying to keep it ...
a bit like the Fpj , it is not to buy the problem , it is to keep !!
Fred,
(bloody Germans
Pfui, Pfui, Pfui...
No Veuve Cliquot! Never again!!...?????
Hmmm - I will not suffer - I am not stupid - I must keep our lifestyles!
You digress...
After reading the latest AIN report my impression is that RP starts eating chalk: unfortunately he needs customers, suppliers, and even some investors...in U. S.
I think, Ken Meyer has a good chance to get his autothrottle for a reasonable price etc.
thanks to some investors like (himself?), Mike Press,....
and RP will ask for an advance payment.
Why? That is the easiest way to get some cash into the empty pockets, to pay suppliers, to show that there are people who trust the new business plan.
But first the three sixty - three
(aviation phrase: make a three
sixty - fly a circle // on ground
plus 3: (just sec 363) continue after turning (a pause) with a minor deviation (no liabilies...))!
Julius
P. S.: The 363 does not resolve any technical problems...
bonjour,Julius ...
don't get angry , no need for , i was making some fun of being from both sides ... ;-))
i agree with this obvious point : WE MUST keep our lifestyle ...
as for RP , i don't know if he is "eating chalk" but i guess he saw the limitations of contradicting lies between ABQ and ULWW ...
when you are supposed to build (or assemble) something but have no furnisher for spares , situation is unlikely to get better ...!
may be as well , he understood that the best way to get some cash is to "rinse" a little more his former victims ... sorry customers ...!
reading the news from AIN , it sounds a bit strange ...
sounds a bit like "The Wedge" in his glorious days ...
"the market is present , the trust is high , the potential phantasmal ..."
wonder if someone has finally understood all the downhill effect of a BK on a "start-up" ....
Fred,
bonjour!
I should have said "sandale, sandale ..."!
RP must play "good boy" - at the end he needs the FAA and the EASA.
He needs some bait for his .. victims - bean counter attitude is
counterproductive.
Too many real victims are not the best cert for an investor.
If VEB is really investing money in the new owner of EAC VEB will want to see some positive cash flow...
I do not know when RP will be sure that VEB will transfer the money to ETIRC.
Julius
julius , as far as i know ...
VEB is NEVER going to transfer money to Etrick ...
(if they still have any intention to waste cash in this nightmare ...?)
what for ?
to waste money in the BK ?
would you give Royalties to a Firm that have proved by itself to be a failure ?
they want eclipsky ? = they go to auction !
they only need to add 1 single $ to it
they need RP ? = what for ? he only adds more uncertainty to the plot ...!
to tout méga-orders all around and make the whole thing looking like a giant joke ?
and ANYWAY , right from beginning it was stated the plant would be run with Russian under Etirc expertise ... (what a joke ...!)
VEB made clear that never under any condition and at any time any other entity would be in control of the sum invested ...
that is why they would eventually be within the shareholders ...
on top of it , all shares eventually (still as far as i know ) in possession of others (not being the Region or the Town) would be pledged in favor of the lending bank (making them Secured First rank Creditors ... and forbidding any sale outside of the pool of shareholders )
if i guess right (this part i have no other hint than guessing , but knowing Russkyis and business = it fall as a good-common-sens ) the pledge would be levitated when RP Etrick would have had enough of their share of Profits to pay back ...
safer to say : NEVER ! ;-))
sorry :
safer :
a loan of some 200+M$ ...
with interests north of 10/12% if in $ (doubtful) or much north of 15% in rubbles ...
loan to be repaid with a share of profits made on something which has created nothing but deficits ...
under the current economic condition ...
to repay a loan , the lender has NO interest it is paid back ...
(to keep it under control )
EVEN if RP manage to sell the plane for Enough $$$ to make ENOUGH PROFITS to repay the loan ...
the shares held by the City and the ones held by the region ...
what to do with ?
you see each solution is bringing in more problems than it solve !!!
Fred,
it's really weird - but RP loves it!
Julius
x drawled: "The Law West of the Pecos says "No stinkin' AD"
Dave then responded:
"The AD isn't in effect yet. That being said, I think it is unwise to fly the aircraft that high..."
The blogosphere is likely mystified by this exchange, because it refers to a comment I had already deleted, which was calling attention to this flight....
this flight...
Now what is interesting is the flight plan called for FL39, and the practice was FL37. (and an earlier westbound which also was conducted below its plan and the AD Max.) I had made my comment based on the flight plan, and deleted when it became apparent the cruise level was held in compliance.
yes !!!
up to now , i couldn't see if it is part of a strategy ...
the reaction of a control-freak
or plain good old BS ...
before some kind of schmuck start to write :
Never , you already wrote Never many times blablabla ...
never= it doesn't make any sens , i would be surprised ...
if someone with only 2 brain cell and the IQ of a mosquito (like me!)
can formulate such "back draw" to this fiasco ...
what about guys who are checking and weighing investments for a living ?
don't be fooled by them being Russian , you would be very surprised ....!!!
No surprise here: GM and Ford to sell their corporate jets and/or sell the leases...
The corollary must hold true in the GA arena. Those 'near-rich' owners at the margins have to dump their little toy FPJ in a recession. When will this mess be over???!
e.d.t.
http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/AutoCompaniesSellingOffFlightDepartments_199317-1.html
Ooh!! And this from AIN Online:
PMI More Bearish in Latest VLJ Forecast
By Charles Alcock
December 2, 2008
The market for very light jets (VLJs) is set to take a significant dip as recession sweeps across Western economies, according to PMI Media. The firm’s latest study–The Very Light Jet Market 2008-17: The impact of the global financial crisis–predicts that 4,610 VLJs worth $9.54 billion will be delivered over this 10-year period.
This is almost 23 percent down on the 5,970 deliveries the UK-based firm predicted in the October 2007 edition of its VLJ market report. Published yesterday, the new report comes just days after VLJ maker Eclipse Aviation filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection.
PMI Media tracks the VLJ market by analyzing supplier order backlogs and purchasing trends by air taxi, corporate and individual aircraft operators. “Given the current difficult market circumstances it is difficult to see how more than one or two new aircraft entrants–outside established aircraft manufacturers such as Embraer, Diamond, Piper and Cessna–will be able to survive a prolonged period of market uncertainty,” said PMI Media editorial director Philip Butterworth-Hayes.
The report forecasts annual VLJ deliveries broken down into aircraft type and geographic spread.
Yet now it appears the money may have actually been spent in day-to-day operations. Does that provide any course of action unique to those deposits in particular, such as fraud?
If Ken is waking up to this, I see no reason to criticize him for it.
Faithful were stupid lemmings,
please, do not paste and copy
if it is not absolutely necessary!
My position: Delete your posts
and write it in your own words!
Julius
Dear Faithful...
Sorry, that didn't come out quite right...
1) Welcome to the blog!
2) I'd say Ken and Shari have a way with words.
3) I think they are posting reasonable questions.
4) EAC's answers will amount to little more than lip service
5) But that's not necessarily a bad thing, if they follow through.
6) Items 2) and 3) are a good way of "encouraging" EAC to satisfactorily perform items 4) and 5)
7) I don't like ending on an odd number, so please go to item 8)
8) So long for now!
The Meyers et al have filed with the BK Court to form a Customers Committee and in the filing state that customers have claims of potentially over $1 billion (deposits, retrofits, etc). Despite being a legal filing, it is passionate. I suggest we support and help Ken going forward, rather than criticize him for what he's said in the past.
Support for Owners and Depositors
Surely the owner/depositor group will encounter some hefty expenses and they must be assessing themselves to pay the costs. If a member of that group were to post an address, would blog readers be willing to send some modest contributions? I would. This would show that however much we criticize, we are not without compassion and support for those who are caught up in the mess, however they got there. I would suggest an odd dollar amount so that when a check arrives, it will clearly be from a blog member. Those wishing to be anonymous could send a money order. I would suggest $129 or $258, representing 50 cents or $1.00 for each airplane delivered. How about it?
My observation - given the last couple of posts re: Ken etal...
This is truly one great group of people.
Customers imply fraudulent 363:
"While the Debtors have ignored the interests of customers in the sale process to date, the importance of the Debtors' customers will be evident to any serious asset purchaser engaged in a bona fide arm's length transaction for the debtors assets." (the emphasis was in the original filing)
Though I don't believe what they say is necessarilly true, it does show how they feel.
Other phrases used "ETIRC's inherent conflict," "customers are uniquely either the largest asset of Eclipse, or its largest liability" and "a purchaser will either be buying a viable company with a loyal customer base or a shell of a company with the ability to manufacture airplanes but with a tarnished image in the market."
Also in reading the filing, it appears that Roel has objected to there being a customers committee.
They are being represented by Perkins Coie who signed the First Day list, but didn't state who they represented and also Klehr, Harrison, Harvey, Branzenburg & Ellers, who I don't believe were there.
Eclipse founder and former CEO Vern Raburn said that investors have provided about $400 million in equity since Eclipse was founded in 1998.
“All those existing shareholders will be screwed,” Raburn said. “All the money that’s gone into the company — from Bill Gates to the state of New Mexico — it’s all gone....”
Raburn said the bankruptcy is probably Eclipse’s last best chance to move forward.
“It’s not cause for celebration, but it seems necessary for Eclipse to survive and eventually prosper,” Raburn said. “If Pieper is committed to taking the company forward as the filings indicate, then it’s probably a good thing.”
NMBW:Eclipse bankruptcy helps some, hurts many others
And folks, you can all join the effort. Every nickel helps! Send you contributions in any amount by Paypal to Eclipseowner@gmail.com
(No joke here; I'll make sure the money is used to support the legal effort. We're grateful for your help.)
Ken
And folks, you can all join the effort. Every nickel helps! Send you contributions in any amount
I was recently downsized (anyone need an analyst?), but if you're looking for non-financial help I can provide that.
Ken,
Speaking for myself, and I'd bet for many others on this blog, nothing would make me happier than the owners getting some traction in this mess. You guys believed in a dream that many of us can easily relate to, and got screwed blue. My donation is on the way.
Did I miss a post? Sounds like Ken said something and then it was deleted?
Did I miss a post? Sounds like Ken said something and then it was deleted?
Read the last ten posts and that should get you up to speed.
DAve,
sounds like someone decided it would be good to make some noise...
By my simple math last week, the customers are owed well over $1B.
I am glad they are making some NOISE... they have been stiffed enough.
Truth is, these few hundred folks might be a huge percentage of the total worldwide market for the plane - I am not sure anyone in their right mind would place a deposit for one of these... so the remaining orders from position-holders, IS the market.
I do not think RPs plan of completely shafting them will hold up...
Ken,
I'll contribute, but you have to promise to refer to them as ETRICK in all proceedings!
Best of luck...
ok, I kinda see. I see a referenced quote from Ken, and I can't find the source post, hence my confusion.
"Yet now it appears the money may have actually been spent in day-to-day operations. Does that provide any course of action unique to those deposits in particular, such as fraud?"
I do not think RPs plan of completely shafting them will hold up...
It seems suicidal. The existing owners and deposit holders are "over 500" and if you shaft them, not only do you damage your market, those customers can make some serious noise to other potential buyers. In the pre-internet days something like this was more doable in that one region wouldn't find out what happened in another region, but now everyone in the world knows what is going on worldwide. The only people who wouldn't know what has gone on with Eclipse would be those who couldn't buy the aircraft anyway. I think there will always be some buyers, just Roel salting the earth of his customer base will drastically shrink whatever market there was.
ok, I kinda see. I see a referenced quote from Ken, and I can't find the source post, hence my confusion.
The customers (the Meyers in particular) filed a motion to form a customer's committee and in their filing they aren't exactly happy with Roel.
There are no winners, here . . . ‘just varying degrees of loss.
What support, if any, is in place for the many employees . . . present and past, who put their entire future on the line? Up until now, Eclipse has treated them like so much “chattel”, to be used as needed, then tossed aside.
gadfly
A hearty thanks to those who have already contributed to the Customer legal effort. The customers are very grateful to you for reaching out to help us and reaffirming that aviation is populated by some very good people.
Paypal to Eclipseowner@gmail.com for anyone else who wants to join the effort.
Ken
Interesting commentary that I cannot allow to go unhighlighted.
When Wedge started his SLAPP suit I don't recall the Faithful offering to help offset any costs associated and other then Ringtail don't recall too many even being supportive of the fight.
This went on for several months until Wedge was booted by Wedge2.0.
Most will recall that it was Gunner who underwrote the fight until Wedge2.0 dropped the suit - with noted contributions from a few of the critics.
Now, today, Ken and the Faithful have received several unsolicited offers of support from the Critics, only HOURS (and in some case, mere minutes) after learning of the Owner/Depositor filing re: the BK and 363 actions.
I think that speaks volumes.
For my part, I am happy to remain an unpaid consultant through my posts here as we know that although certain owner/posters show one face of a 'Faithful' kind here, those same individuals take EAC to task on the E5C site and elsewhere using the very things stated here which they denied to be accurate.
Cold Fish
In thinking over your comments, you are correct. But, you know, character is what happens when no-one is watching . . . and doing the right thing, regardless of credit or approval. “Life is not fair” . . . that’s OK. Come morning, each of us will behold our own face in the mirror . . . and that will be reward or punishment enough. And those in our lives that have a “need to know”, will notice. It is enough!
gadfly
Very True my dear Gad. Cheers.
BricklinNG, CWMOR, Ken,
And everyone else.
Please hold those thoughts,
For 12 hours or so,
Before acting on them.
(and PLEASE do NOT dismiss those thoughts).
I have some email responses pending for a more comprehensive proposed blog "plan of action".
Thanks.
-Goat
The E500 Club Bailout.
Give me a break, folks!
I'd suggest a donation to the bailout effort equal to 10 times the amount that the E5C sent to Gunner to help him fight the EAC subpoena of blogger identities from Goggle. Let's see...that would be....10x0=0?
To be collected by singularly the most arrogant, boastful and condescending braggart who has posted on this blog.
If I were a position holder or even owner of an almost completed EA50, I would suggest to the court that the company converted my deposit or my partial payment.
A depsoit on a plane is just that - a deposit to be used to build the plane. A partial purchase with stated IOU's is basically a continuation of the deposit agreement - IMO.
I know many will argue, but this is just how I see it, and how I believe most people in the industry would see it. Normally, deposit money is not used for development - it is used to buy parts for a plane... a specific plane, which is the "security" for the deposit, until it is completed and delivered.
This is an industry accepted practice.
I think there was detrimental reliance regardng many statements which were simply untrue... and this painted a rosier picture than the reality. Ths was always used as a tactic to obtain more depsit money...
So, sue those who should be sued personally - BIG NOISE
AND
Take your $1.XB place at the table...
Otherwise say buye-bye to yur inexpensive plane. Its about to become VERY expensive.
Therein lies the rub ATM,
Most legal proceedings use the measure of an average persons' rational expectations or understanding - the mere existence of this blog and the depth of information and experience shared here would seem to blow that out of the water - conceivably, Wedge2.0 may use the blog in his defense.
Now that is what I call irony.
;^)
Am I seeing this right?
Did some of you guys drink the Koolaide?
Some millionaires who didn’t get the jet of their dreams, for a pittance, want lowly worker bees to contribute $$$ to their hopeless legal cause?
Ya know, my pet rock business failed because the manufacturer didn’t deliver acceptable rocks. I too, could use a few hundred grand to initiate legal action. Send funds to my paypal account at chunkylover57@aol.com.
Did these same millionaires contribute their $$$ to Gunner when the wedge unleashed his legal eagles on YOU! I doubt it. Did these same millionaires even offer words of support for the targeted bloggers? I doubt it. Didn’t some of these guys just post EAC cheerleading BS to the blog, all in an attempt to maintain their own financial stake?
I have zero respect for these owners. The handwriting has been on the wall for YEARS. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. I think they are getting what they deserve, a much needed business education. Among my friends and I, EAC was a sad joke six years ago, and everything since then has just reinforced that idea.
The phase “cash arsonist” is liberally spread throughout this blog. Is there some benefit to throwing our hard earned $$$ into the largest cash bonfire in aviation history? You long-term bloggers already have earned a respected place in the history of America’s biggest aviation financial disaster.
If you have extra cash laying around you don’t know what to do with, find a charity for pete’s sake. Its Christmas, and lots of families are in dire straits in this economy.
... but your honor... they said they had 2700 orders with deposits...
... they said they flew the plane with the engine...took my money and went on to spend my deposit money developing another plane with a new engine...
...they said they would provide a fully functioning plane with those avionics, then ditched the avionics and spent my money developing a new avionics solution for more than a year...
How is this a problem for anyone - you could have reasonably expected that you were dealing with a company with many more orders than they really had, a lot more deposit money than they really had, and were always just on the brink of delivering, when you sovelled in more money, and they went back to the drawing board on NEW problems...
But your honor, they said they were going to produce my plane in 2006... its now 2009 and I still don't have my plane. They said they had the ability to make 500 planes in the first year...
To say that a bunch of bloggers doubted what a $3B organization SAID, is a bit of a stretch... no? They even called us a bunh of lying cockroaches.
;)
Some millionaires who didn’t get the jet of their dreams, for a pittance, want lowly worker bees to contribute $$$ to their hopeless legal cause?
It was the Critics who volunteered, the Faithful didn't come here and ask.
I have zero respect for these owners
Even taking that for granted, the owners represent only 1 of the three sub-groups (10% deposit, 60% deposit and owners) of the Customers Committee.
I think they are getting what they deserve, a much needed business education.
Does the phrase "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" mean anything to you? Regardless of how you feel about Eclipse's customers, these same customers can wage direct action against Eclipse whereas most of the non-Faithful bloggers here can have no impact (other than for making posts here outside of the legal proceedings) on the BK case. The Faithful getting help doesn't preclude them from getting a "business education" as you put it, but it also increases the chances of justice being served to Roel. If I could, I would provide financial ammunition to be fired at Roel.
If you have extra cash laying around you don’t know what to do with, find a charity for pete’s sake.
The intent isn't to be a charity, but to be used in fighting Eclipse.
Its Christmas, and lots of families are in dire straits in this economy.
Hey, I'm without a job and you don't see me complaining, but rather I'm encouraging. I think increasing the odds against Roel with a legal fight he has on his hands goes to what the spirit of this blog is about and it isn't just Ken who gets the benefit...he's one of over 500.
Sometimes, when you've cried enough, the only thing remaining is a laugh or two.
EAP
Me thinks you have the big picture! How ‘bout set up a charitable website . . . “www.adopt_a_rock.con” . . . accept donations in the name of “So-n-so”, a former E500 owner wannabe, as a memorial (so to speak) . . . with an embroidered (or ink stamped, "Made in China") hanky, blessed by a former employee of Eclipse or the “ex-governor”, as a token of thanks.
And send the proceeds, anonymously, to a deserving charity.
gadfly
(Once, I had a pet rock . . . it could “roll over”, “play dead”, “lie down” . . . but when I asked it to "speak", it seemed to be paralyzed . . . it was absolutely “petrified”.)
Greater than suspected (est. 500-600-ish),
Less than claimed (900-1000-ish).
They can both be right. Remember that Roel himself represents about 300 units (phony as they are), yet he would be considered 1 in the customer count. Keep in mind there is a different between the number of customers and the number of units ordered.
AvidPilot,
Check. In work. Stand by. 12 hours.
ExperiencedAviationProfessional,
Ditto above.
(btw, thanks again for your "parking lot" report).
DayJet's Chapter 7 BK trustee has showed up in the Eclipse Chapter 11.
goat
Two hours ago, you said "twelve hours". Now you say, "twelve hours". You're beginning to sound like "Next Tuesday", all over again . . . or when I'm on "ignore" with the software help line.
gadfly
(Thanks for deleting that comment that used the words, "goat", "smell", and "good" . . . all in a single phrase . . . that was almost overpowering, so to speak! We await with baited breath . . . twelve hours? . . . ten? . . . whatever . . . with "goats" you hold your breath, and hope! . . . or go "up-wind".)
For the newcomers . . . the "goat" and I are friends . . . so don't take anything I say about goats seriously.
gadfly
Gadfly,
This just out: New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson nominated as Secretary of Commerce by Barack Obama.
May we expect a complete turnaround for Eclipse Aviation including the long-awaited Federal bailout? (Come to think of it, 'bailout' may not have been the best choice of words for an aviation business.)
Dark Blossom
There is so much we could say about his move from here to there . . . just keep your eyeballs pealed . . . and don't turn your back.
gadfly
Hampson's has officially showed up at the BK and judge will have a hearing on the 9th regarding the Customer Committee.
Dave,
When you reported that you had been 'downsized' we worried that you would have to be refitted for clothing. But apparently you only require a new vocational experience and means of livelihood.
When you reported that you had been 'downsized' we worried that you would have to be refitted for clothing. But apparently you only require a new vocational experience and means of livelihood.
My means of livelihood have been downsized, but my clothing size has upsized. It would be better if the reverse were true.
Here is the "Super Lawyer" representing Hampson.
Also completey unrelated to Eclipse, has anyone got caught up with 1031 exchanges with their QI going BK? One of our clients in the family business had their QI go under, so now our client is one of the top creditors for the LandAmerica 1031 BK and I've been working on that as well. Does anyone on here have any experience with in any capacity the Kelley & Drye law firm in NY?
OK,
Who are you, and what have you done with Ken Meyer?
;)
PayPal for Ken??? That is funny. No, when my inner cash-arsonist wants to burn $20, I pay my "stupid tax" with a Powerball ticket. Now ....if I had enough money to blow on an airplane... mebbe I'd consider the Mustang. They seem to be doing quite well lately, eh??! From aero-news.net:
Cessna's Mustang Earns Canadian, Japanese Approvals
Thu, 04 Dec '08
Light Jet Now Certified For Operation In 51 Countries
Overshadowed by the news of significant layoffs at Cessna, was last month's announcement the Kansas-based planemaker earned Canadian and Japanese certifications for its Citation Mustang light jet.
Cessna announced the receipt of Transport Canada and Japanese Civil Aviation Bureau certifications November 18. Receipt of those approvals paves the way for deliveries to begin to customers in both countries.
The current fleet of Citation Mustangs totals 130 aircraft. The fleet has accumulated more than 19,000 flight hours, with the high-time aircraft logging more than 500 hours.
The six-place Mustang is now certified in 51 countries.
As ANN reported, Cessna announced November 12 it would lay off some 665 positions, blaming the move on the global economic crisis. The company handed out pink slips this week... though not as many as the planemaker had stated previously, thanks to about 150 workers who opted to take voluntary severance packages.
It's worth noting none of those involuntary layoffs reportedly came from the Independence, KS production line that builds the Mustang, due to strong sales of the light jet.
http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=e486dae1-2b5e-495d-b187-2e12e3c81a5d&
Hi Gadfly,
You got me on my 12 hours/Tuesday call!! .)
(Good work in progress along these lines- catch you tomorrow AM
(It's Tuesday somewhere- or at least Margarita time there! :)
I have a simple question:
The affiliate, called Eclipse Jet Aviation International Inc., is committed to paying approximately $200 million for Eclipse’s assets. That includes $28 million in cash and $160 million in newly issued notes, said Brad Robins, managing director of New York-based Greenhill & Co. Inc., an investment banking firm hired by Eclipse to negotiate the asset sale.
Source: Witchita business news
2008-12-01
http://wichita.bizjournals.com/wichita/business_travel/story/biz/1296.html
What are these n o t e s ? Who defined the value of the "notes"? Are they convertible into cash?
I though the victims need cash - real cash!
Is RP just "buying" time for what-ever reasons?
Julius
Guten Tag , Herr Julius ...
ok , so a few thoughts :
NOTES : it depends on who is emitting them ...
in Africa , i have seen Notes (sometimes as well called Promissory Notes) based on harvest of red Beans ...(no Joke ! nothing to do with the "can O beans" discussed here !!!)
an other point which is utterly funny (for me , i wrote it before = weird sens of humor !)
28 M$ + 160M$ = 188 M$
wasn't it 200M$ ???
funnily enough if you integrate the 12 M$ of the DIP , you arrive at 200 M$ ...
what a coincidence !!! ;-)))
an other one :
IF 12M$ in DIP are about to be enough (not sure ...it can be extended to 20M$) for a firm producing NOTHING ...
is 28M$ going to be enough to close the doors ???
i have doubts ! ;-))
Dear Customer,
This past summer, Eclipse Aviation became aware of pilot reports of engine surges. Eclipse Aviation in cooperation with Pratt and Whitney Canada (P&WC) immediately initiated an investigation into the cause, implications, and safety risks associated with these events. These findings were quickly shared with our pilot community in a Customer Pilot Communication (CPC) 500-2008-12, dated August 18, 2008. This CPC informed Eclipse 500® pilots of the possibility of engine surge events and recommended actions should an engine surge event occur.
Eclipse Aviation and P&WC continued the investigation with extensive flight tests to fully characterize the operating conditions promoting the formation of excessive carbon deposits, and validating procedural changes to reduce the probability of engine surge events caused by carbon deposits. These findings led to the issuance of CPC 500-2008-12A, dated October 10, 2008, which provided pilots instructions to prevent the occurrence of this condition by avoiding high bleed above FL370. In addition to the second CPC, Eclipse Aviation, working closely with P&WC, submitted an Airplane Flight Manual (AFM) Temporary Revision (TR) to the FAA on October 2, 2008 to incorporate the recommended procedures.
While the guidance provided in CPC 500-2008-12A indicated the draft TR to the AFM would prevent future engine surge occurrences if followed, the FAA rejected our submission and instead issued an Airworthiness Directive (AD) limiting all operations of the Eclipse 500 to FL370 or below. This AD becomes effective December 4, 2008.
Since the initial identification of the problem, P&WC and Eclipse Aviation have been investigating long-term solutions for in-service and production aircraft. Several possible solutions have been identified and we continue to work with P&WC to find the best resolution.
In the meantime, Eclipse Aviation will submit comments to the FAA per the AD and urge all interested parties to do the same before the January 23, 2009 deadline. For information on how to submit comments, please go to http://www.regulations.gov.
We appreciate your patience as we collectively work to remove the flight level restrictions imposed by this AD.
Michael McConnell
President and General Manager, Customer Division
Eclipse Aviation
Eclipse Aviation Proprietary Information All information and data contained herein are the property of Eclipse Aviation Corporation and are not to be duplicated or disclosed to others for any purpose without the consent of Eclipse Aviation Corporation, Albuquerque, NM. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this email immediately.
Bonjour M. Fred,
what's wrong with the Africans - they want to grow the beans etc.!
The Europeans did/do the same - and also lose/gain a lot of money!
But in this capitalistic situation I have doubts, if the acting boss really wants to do anything - really different to f. e. tribal African standards. He seems to prefer sailing, basketball players playing...
For closing the doors you need some money... new keys, new locks ... more than 1k$!
Julius
Fred,
you mean, that the poor ETIRC aviation only gets 28M$ cash, and the other will get those big 160M...
Is that fair to American business standards?
The judge in Delaware will decide...
Julius
P.S.: After the auction - the victims will come and ask for help
- without clenched fists in the pockests?
julius :
absolutely nothing wrong with africa...
but when you see a region wanting to borrow money for a Dev. project X , trying to raise some money , and finally offering as guarantee a promissory note based itself on the future(s) harvest of red beans ...
somebody like me , think :
If the beans are taken away from the locals mouths , isn't it going to be more expensive to fix the food-crisis after ?
is there going to be enough rain ?
is there going to be some crop-disease or grasshoppers ?
Finally , EAC sounds very much like Africa ...
very small money , lots of "IF" !;-)
It's been our largest thread to date, but all good things must come to an end.
New post up. I hope I've covered the principle points, but have little doubt that 'you' will let me know if I've failed in any particular!
Shane
Post a Comment