tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post7600731050776571844..comments2023-09-17T04:46:20.879-07:00Comments on Eclipse Aviation Critic NG: Some words from staff, suppliers and customersShane Pricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07181451780244241883noreply@blogger.comBlogger227125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-58615898841680500992008-10-02T23:44:00.000-07:002008-10-02T23:44:00.000-07:00n a highly competitive world where the customer ex...n a highly competitive world where the customer expects to be king, why are so many firms unhappy with the products they purchase, sales staff that over-promise and don’t deliver, and less than optimal after-sales service? In a recent paper, “Rethinking Customer Solutions: From Product Bundles to Relational Processes”, published in the Journal of Marketing,<BR/>------------------<BR/>jones<BR/><A HREF="http://www.drivenwide.com" REL="nofollow">Internet Marketing</A>angelinjoneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07855854811826839292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-29100226357210926432008-10-02T23:35:00.000-07:002008-10-02T23:35:00.000-07:00n a highly competitive world where the customer ex...n a highly competitive world where the customer expects to be king, why are so many firms unhappy with the products they purchase, sales staff that over-promise and don’t deliver, and less than optimal after-sales service? In a recent paper, “Rethinking Customer Solutions: From Product Bundles to Relational Processes”, published in the Journal of Marketing.<BR/>---------------<BR/>jones<BR/><A HREF="http://www.drivenwide.com" REL="nofollow">Internet Marketing</A>angelinjoneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07855854811826839292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-76930174406022833372008-09-04T01:19:00.000-07:002008-09-04T01:19:00.000-07:00New post up.And it's pretty special...ShaneNew post up.<BR/><BR/>And it's pretty special...<BR/><BR/>ShaneShane Pricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07181451780244241883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-39476951260710887742008-09-03T23:46:00.000-07:002008-09-03T23:46:00.000-07:00How about we scrub the order books for them.If we ...How about we scrub the order books for them.<BR/><BR/>If we take the highest number of orders ever reliably claimed by Eclispe, and start substracting the ones we know have been cancelled, and the ones were resonable due diligence can show that they were vapour orders from a new start up which appears DOA.<BR/><BR/>I wouldn't surprised if we end up with a negative number...<BR/><BR/>I would propose the following be struck out of the "Blogger order book".<BR/><BR/>Alpha Airways minus 10 orders and 40 options<BR/>No Press releases or any other signs of life since mid 2006.<BR/><BR/>Jet Set Air Ltd Minus 10 orders and 40 options. No signs of life since that one Eclipse 01/2006 magazine article for the order.FreedomsJamtartshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18240818544017409683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-34316228712833340802008-09-03T23:28:00.000-07:002008-09-03T23:28:00.000-07:00Russia's aviation industrial base was devastated i...Russia's aviation industrial base was devastated in the 90's. They are now consulidating it and building back up.<BR/><BR/>As far as I know no Russian product has even been certified by a JAA or now EASA team.<BR/><BR/>Certification as practised by the FAA dn EASA is not a russia strength. They had a completely different system.<BR/><BR/>We already know that the "ETRIC" office location in Moscow doesn't exist. This blogs travelling reporter went they to call that bluff. <BR/><BR/>Can anyone produce a photo of a grip and grin photo op of Roel/Vern and some local official laying the cornerstone of the new production facilities? Politians live for this kind of stuff. <BR/><BR/>No photo.... because there is no Russian plant being built. It does not exist, not even in cyberspace.FreedomsJamtartshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18240818544017409683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-5112221739981069772008-09-03T23:10:00.000-07:002008-09-03T23:10:00.000-07:00We covered some interesting ground... from the rec...<I>We covered some interesting ground... from the recently announced Eclipse 400, to the price increase Eclipse instituted for the Eclipse 500 twin jet program so that the company could work its way to profitability.</I><BR/><BR/>Let's be real.<BR/><BR/>1. Eclipse is not building the E400 now or in the foreseeable future. Why? Because they are dead broke. They have a net negative net worth, and no one has stepped up to the plate yet to offer them more cash to burn.<BR/><BR/>2. Eclipse doesn't know what a profit is. This is something they have never seen, nor will they ever see since their business plan guarantees they will continue to lose money, month after month until BK puts them out of their misery.Niner Zuluhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03832225359912318881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-2820114664054737102008-09-03T21:17:00.000-07:002008-09-03T21:17:00.000-07:00Oh, the end can't be far now! Get a load of the A...Oh, the end can't be far now! Get a load of the ANN video on "pondering VLJ questions... and answer".<BR/><BR/>We all know that Capt Zoom hasn't a journalistic bone in his body, but even for him, this was over the top promotion disguised as "news".<BR/><BR/>So Eclipse is pulling out the PR stops now which means they must need some good "press" to make things work. The numbers alone (ha!) won't do it. Let's wallpaper over those cockroaches.<BR/><BR/>With customers like that, who needs product?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-2225780548835678312008-09-03T19:57:00.000-07:002008-09-03T19:57:00.000-07:00"ASM said ... Also Honda is going to do the E..."ASM said ... Also Honda is going to do the European sales and service of the Honda Jet themselves. <BR/><BR/>Highly unlikely, based on two conversations I've had a few months back with people (from GE) in the know - they are looking for an european partner as well."<BR/><BR/>Below is from a Honda Aircraft press release:<BR/><BR/>GENEVA, Switzerland, May 20, 2008 – Honda Aircraft Company, Inc., began European sales of the HondaJet advanced light jet at the European Business Aviation Convention & Exhibition (EBACE) by introducing its first customer in the region – F-1 race driver and business entrepreneur, Jenson Button. To provide sales and service support to its customers in Europe, the company announced that it will establish a new European network of three HondaJet-exclusive sales and service centers.airsafetymanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07923869957339462116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-42846684753080462722008-09-03T19:40:00.000-07:002008-09-03T19:40:00.000-07:00ASM said ... Also Honda is going to do the Europea...<I>ASM said ... Also Honda is going to do the European sales and service of the Honda Jet themselves. </I><BR/><BR/>Highly unlikely, based on two conversations I've had a few months back with people (from GE) in the know - they are looking for an european partner as well. BTW, I think the choice of Piper is not a great one. Piper's sales and support are not top notch and there is an obvious competitive situation involved.Baron95https://www.blogger.com/profile/01421355643916832199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-56120914003559544162008-09-03T19:26:00.000-07:002008-09-03T19:26:00.000-07:00Does EAC have a friend in the local news media?---...Does EAC have a friend in the local news media?<BR/>-------<BR/><BR/>I've heard a story that a certain well-known aircraft company was going to have a job fair in ABQ this week, but the newspaper messed up their ad and didn't tell people where to go!<BR/><BR/>------<BR/><BR/>Innocent mistake or something else?easybakeplanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09065547198556144894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-85290216870575107692008-09-03T15:44:00.000-07:002008-09-03T15:44:00.000-07:00best possible light - funny.Its a dumb plan... I l...best possible light - funny.<BR/><BR/>Its a dumb plan... I liked "we're moving to Russia" better.<BR/><BR/>I'm going to watch UBS on this - if they are successful, I might have some deals for them and their clients!!!airtaximanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12977944795556689805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-9689997833175506122008-09-03T15:39:00.000-07:002008-09-03T15:39:00.000-07:00Flight InternationalAirspace Face-offDecember 12, ...Flight International<BR/>Airspace Face-off<BR/>December 12, 2005<BR/>By Graham Warwick<BR/><BR/>"... Fully two-thirds of Eclipse's 2,300-plus orderbook is for air-taxi operators, who will employ their pilots, many of them expected to be ex-airline. The biggest of the announced orders is from DayJet for 239 aircraft to be delivered over 24 months, beginning around the middle of next year."<BR/><BR/>I guess this is the new math... its exciting to note 2/3 of the orderbook is air taxi guys like Dayjet... AND... dayjet only has 239 orders.<BR/><BR/>very interesting - and this was before etrick orders... its from 2005.airtaximanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12977944795556689805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-61563682827588806122008-09-03T15:30:00.000-07:002008-09-03T15:30:00.000-07:00ATman,Several sources, all saying similar things. ...ATman,<BR/><BR/>Several sources, all saying similar things. The company has not been split up, just the management. However, it allows UBS to present it in the best possible light.<BR/><BR/>The production plant might (or might not) make the FPJ in volume, but could really churn out the ConJet. That's one of the ways they will play it. And remember, there is quite a lot of 'stuff' there, already TC'd and PC'd. Most of the 'core' staff are still around.<BR/><BR/>It might work, and for sure that's what UBS will tell the marks.<BR/><BR/>On the sales and service side, there is more of a challenge. Which is why it may end up as the 'orphan child'.<BR/><BR/>But...<BR/><BR/>Fundamentally, you're right. It must be better to start from scratch and do it right than try to fix what's already pretty badly smashed up.<BR/><BR/>Check in 'tomorrow' for the new headline. I'm pretty sure it will be worth it.<BR/><BR/>No, scratch that, I KNOW it's going to be special.<BR/><BR/>ShaneShane Pricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07181451780244241883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-56582395909903354922008-09-03T15:28:00.000-07:002008-09-03T15:28:00.000-07:00http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eclipse_500very good ...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eclipse_500<BR/><BR/>very good summary - I do not remember this robust an entry in wikipedia on EAC.<BR/><BR/>nice list of required rtrofits and IOUs, problems with EASA, etc.. and of course, my favorite - the V-jetII pedegree...airtaximanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12977944795556689805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-13263273218782925052008-09-03T15:23:00.000-07:002008-09-03T15:23:00.000-07:00Eclipse now has a lower BBB rating due to a second...Eclipse now has a lower BBB rating due to a second unanswered complaint (the summary of the second complaint isn't available):<BR/>http://www.bbbsw.org/BBBWeb/Forms/Business/CompanyReportPage_Expository.aspx?CompanyID=38435Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08301246864437379349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-13414281502072632042008-09-03T15:11:00.000-07:002008-09-03T15:11:00.000-07:00UBS had previously raised $225 million in covertab...UBS had previously raised $225 million in covertable debt for Eclipse:<BR/>http://www.bizjournals.com/albuquerque/stories/2006/07/24/daily27.htmlDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08301246864437379349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-31997562287188533062008-09-03T14:49:00.000-07:002008-09-03T14:49:00.000-07:00BTW,I do not think the company has been "divided" ...BTW,<BR/><BR/>I do not think the company has been "divided" in two from a corporate structure perspective... as in two companies - I think this is the way they are resolving inefficiencies and roles and responsibilities.<BR/><BR/>And, its compete amateur hour as a tactic, if this is what they are doing.<BR/><BR/>Their BIGGEST single problem was, no real market analysis went into the design. Vern declared what the plane needs to be - IIRC.<BR/><BR/>They built the wrong thing.<BR/><BR/>OK, now they are stuck with it, but this should be considered short term... they are going to build and support a family of planes...<BR/><BR/>Now there's some good BS for UBS.airtaximanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12977944795556689805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-76588955531774490662008-09-03T14:45:00.000-07:002008-09-03T14:45:00.000-07:00"UBS can say to potential investors here is the pr..."UBS can say to potential investors here is the production unit, with this demonstrated capacity, which can be cranked up to make pretty much any GA aircraft you like. Over here, on the other hand, are all the liabilities for the existing fleet, which may or may not generate a revenue stream."<BR/><BR/>Shane, do you KNOW this is what they are doing? Or just imagining?<BR/><BR/>Are you saying "make any GA aircraft" as in... new EAC product? or ANY GA aircraft..."<BR/><BR/>Because, if its any GA plane, the claim is is complete unadulterated BS - it would be easier to buy a hangar and outfit it for production from scratch.airtaximanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12977944795556689805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-40875432324785894442008-09-03T14:42:00.000-07:002008-09-03T14:42:00.000-07:00There is a plan, believe it or not. By running the...<I>There is a plan, believe it or not. By running the company as two divisions, UBS can say to potential investors here is the production unit, with this demonstrated capacity, which can be cranked up to make pretty much any GA aircraft you like. Over here, on the other hand, are all the liabilities for the existing fleet, which may or may not generate a revenue stream.</I><BR/><BR/>So it is Eclipse as the Roman Empire. Roel is no Diocletian, but I hope that he retires to a farm in Croatia to raise cabbages.Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08301246864437379349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-73365937876343123682008-09-03T14:32:00.001-07:002008-09-03T14:32:00.001-07:00folks,usually, aerospace companies design the part...folks,<BR/><BR/>usually, aerospace companies design the parts with the supplier (in mind), so that manufacturability is designed in - especially for a new GA airplane designed for low cost.<BR/><BR/>If you think finding suppliers in Russia, or anywhere else for that matter, is going to be easy, you are probably way off base.<BR/><BR/>Then again, I am not sure they "really" designed this plane for low cost - I think they relied on volume production claims and low pricing based on trumpped up volume for lower prices... BIG error.<BR/><BR/>CWMOR, Gadfly could provide insight..<BR/><BR/>But, BOeing, Bombardier, Embraer, etc.. all do buiness around the world... including Russia.airtaximanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12977944795556689805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-19213986056197658012008-09-03T14:32:00.000-07:002008-09-03T14:32:00.000-07:00We know Piper was looking. Ar ethey still interest...We know Piper was looking. Ar ethey still interested?flightguyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04069540699687646803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-63937077312800400522008-09-03T14:30:00.000-07:002008-09-03T14:30:00.000-07:00Two PresidentsThere is a plan, believe it or not. ...<B>Two Presidents</B><BR/><BR/>There is a plan, believe it or not. By running the company as two divisions, UBS can say to potential investors here is the production unit, with this demonstrated capacity, which can be cranked up to make pretty much any GA aircraft you like. Over here, on the other hand, are all the liabilities for the existing fleet, which may or may not generate a revenue stream.<BR/><BR/>Take your pick.<BR/><BR/>So they get to sell EAC twice. <BR/><BR/>What lucky chaps they are...<BR/><BR/>Weird sort of logic behind it, I think you will agree. The plant might find a buyer for a 'high volume' factory from someone seeking to expand their own production quickly. The 'sales' and (more important) service company can screw the existing customers into the ground, under new ownership. After all, those upgrades were promised by Mr. Raburn.<BR/><BR/>Vern who?<BR/><BR/>Speaking of old friends, I have a new headline post for tomorrow, which I know a number of you will enjoy.<BR/><BR/>ShaneShane Pricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06571348452899329376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-74433540992856762492008-09-03T14:28:00.000-07:002008-09-03T14:28:00.000-07:00Dave,Did you find anything Vern said regarding the...Dave,<BR/><BR/>Did you find anything Vern said regarding the number of orders to the GAO, congress, a gov't meeting etc?airtaximanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12977944795556689805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-8465875500346946532008-09-03T14:25:00.000-07:002008-09-03T14:25:00.000-07:00mas,a- they trusted Vern would not blow it for $10...mas,<BR/><BR/>a- they trusted Vern would not blow it for $100M<BR/><BR/>b- there was no way they would participate in more funding<BR/><BR/>c- there were no other options<BR/><BR/>- the only way out of this situation, after you receive the money, is to walk. Leave the bank holding the keys, so to speak. I guess management believed in Roel, more than Vern... imagine THAT!<BR/><BR/><BR/>Mas, whytech will tell you, its not that unusual.<BR/><BR/>I wonder if there are Preferred shareholders, etc... actually, stupid question on my part.. there's nothing left but the (how does this expression go?)airtaximanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12977944795556689805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-22370297055770430332008-09-03T14:18:00.000-07:002008-09-03T14:18:00.000-07:00How does a $100M note supercede the previous $900M...<I>How does a $100M note supercede the previous $900M burned?</I><BR/><BR/>Debt (secured) ranks higher than equity (unsecured). Roel for instance wouldn't own everything as other secured creditors have pieces. I for instance see the Gainesville and Albany airports burned pretty badly by Eclipse as they each have gone about $7 million in debt for Eclipse (Eclipse is an unsecured creditor as a tenant but the airports are secured debtholders where they've put their future revenues in hock to build facilities for Eclipse). The City of Albuquerque is a secured creditor with the Industrial Revenue Bond, but I don't see them getting back the entire amount that they've put into it.Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08301246864437379349noreply@blogger.com