tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post5283921743759371396..comments2023-09-17T04:46:20.879-07:00Comments on Eclipse Aviation Critic NG: A nuclear winter loomsShane Pricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07181451780244241883noreply@blogger.comBlogger443125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-14210363797317316892008-11-25T08:35:00.000-08:002008-11-25T08:35:00.000-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Niner Zuluhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03832225359912318881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-11155125240999111192008-11-25T08:34:00.001-08:002008-11-25T08:34:00.001-08:00New headline up, for obvious reasons.Clearly I'll ...New headline up, for obvious reasons.<BR/><BR/>Clearly I'll expand it as more details reach the blog.<BR/><BR/>ShaneShane Pricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07181451780244241883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-64357690258827837372008-11-25T08:34:00.000-08:002008-11-25T08:34:00.000-08:00Bt :nice job ! ;-)since you seems to understand O....Bt :<BR/><BR/>nice job ! ;-)<BR/><BR/>since you seems to understand O.B. ...<BR/><BR/>could you share a bit of your light ?<BR/><BR/>what's going to happen ... is it :<BR/><BR/>Old "new-Deal"<BR/>or <BR/>New "Old-Deal" ?<BR/><BR/>i 've been kind of lost , lately ...fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08144753596502433091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-38417232797200230852008-11-25T08:30:00.000-08:002008-11-25T08:30:00.000-08:00Which blogger predicted 2 or 3 months ago that the...Which blogger predicted 2 or 3 months ago that they'd go BK on 11/25? Pretty good predicting!!TBMs_R_Ushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05303719770613879982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-29308808198430197832008-11-25T08:25:00.000-08:002008-11-25T08:25:00.000-08:00http://kob.com/article/stories/S678186.shtml?cat=5...http://kob.com/article/stories/S678186.shtml?cat=500eclipsohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11539880484640754973noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-72788050709992663892008-11-25T08:21:00.000-08:002008-11-25T08:21:00.000-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Black Tuliphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04657938226341343450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-44384046392752404352008-11-25T08:05:00.000-08:002008-11-25T08:05:00.000-08:00Peg's already disappeared from the Bios of the Exe...Peg's already disappeared from the <A HREF="http://www.eclipseaviation.com/company/about/leadership-team.php" REL="nofollow">Bios of the Exec Team</A>Orvillehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14106058671186471102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-77707433374706987682008-11-25T07:57:00.000-08:002008-11-25T07:57:00.000-08:00I don't think you will be surpirsed as to who put ...I don't think you will be surpirsed as to who put first bid down on EAC.EclipsePilotOMSIVhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08963579637658363190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-18511380712149774822008-11-25T07:55:00.000-08:002008-11-25T07:55:00.000-08:00"In the face of unprecedented economic challenges,..."In the face of unprecedented economic challenges, it is clear that the sale of the Eclipse business through the Chapter 11 process is the right course of action to maximize the value of the business, secure its future and protect the best interests of Eclipse's stakeholders, including customers, suppliers, employees and creditors," said Roel Pieper, CEO of Eclipse Aviation. "The successful sale will position the business for aggressive global expansion, allowing the company to fulfill its promise and solidify its position as the world's leading manufacturer of VLJs."<BR/><BR/>Eclipse also announced Tuesday the voluntary departure of Peg Billson from her position as president and general manager of the company's Manufacturing Division to pursue other career opportunities.<BR/><BR/>"Ms. Billson's position will be replaced with interim manufacturing oversight provided by Eclipse's senior supply chain, engineering, production and flight operations leaders," said an Eclipse release.Orvillehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14106058671186471102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-61042916854269212192008-11-25T07:54:00.000-08:002008-11-25T07:54:00.000-08:00EPx,Thanks for the scoop (again! .)This seemed pre...EPx,<BR/>Thanks for the scoop (again! .)<BR/><BR/>This seemed pretty unavoidable, another $200-300M would only have delayed it and made the hole deeper.<BR/><BR/>If a dim wit like me could figure this out, let's figure smart people like Roel and Peg did as well, and already have a strategy in mind.<BR/><BR/>I figure they do, and hopefully things will continue as smoothly as possible during BK.<BR/><BR/>I fear the suppliers are getting reamed with this; I hope no owners-in-waiting get dinged as well (I really don't think they will, other than perhaps having to deal with some additional delays, which was probably inevitable anyway, if EAC lost the empenage supplier (Hampsons) and IS&S).<BR/><BR/>Like I say, I figure they have a plan prepared- lets hope it is well executed, for a change. (Perhaps this will give Mr. Pieper some freedom from the constraints he inherited from the Wedge).<BR/><BR/>For the employees- my heart goes out to you. You've done a great job. The blog's general consensus is that the near-term sustainable size of EAC is somewhat smaller than projected in the past. <BR/><BR/>But it's a good product (and will continue to be refined), so hopefully this transition period will be as, ah, "Non-Disruptive" as possible.<BR/><BR/>Godspeed during the next few months, to all involved.bill e. goathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16258371211154585137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-35983421109478815772008-11-25T07:52:00.001-08:002008-11-25T07:52:00.001-08:00dave ....do you want to kill us of curiosity ? how...dave ....<BR/><BR/>do you want to kill us of curiosity ? <BR/><BR/>how much for sharing ??<BR/><BR/>(kidding off course ...!;-) )fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08144753596502433091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-87603364105457869312008-11-25T07:52:00.000-08:002008-11-25T07:52:00.000-08:00Dave,Whatever you get, I'll link in a headline pos...Dave,<BR/><BR/>Whatever you get, I'll link in a headline post, as soon as you have it.<BR/><BR/>I'm awaiting owner, supplier and staff reactions as well.<BR/><BR/>Also, I think it's fair to say that whatever I put up first will be modified in short order as additional information comes to hand.<BR/><BR/>Use the blog emails<BR/><BR/>eclipsecriticng@gmail.com<BR/><BR/>ShaneShane Pricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07181451780244241883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-41973433361197800372008-11-25T07:47:00.000-08:002008-11-25T07:47:00.000-08:00dave you got a link to that???I used my PACER acco...<I>dave you got a link to that???</I><BR/><BR/>I used my PACER account to login into the Delaware BK court and I'm downloading documents now. I don't know if it has hit the wires, but for me I'm going right to the source. It's <I>VERY INTERESTING</I> reading so far.Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08301246864437379349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-87689254668001876482008-11-25T07:43:00.000-08:002008-11-25T07:43:00.000-08:00dave you got a link to that???dave you got a link to that???EclipsePilotOMSIVhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08963579637658363190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-2149699052100582372008-11-25T07:41:00.000-08:002008-11-25T07:41:00.000-08:00bad news for believers ...hope the furnishers have...bad news for believers ...<BR/><BR/>hope the furnishers have a stock of lubricant !fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08144753596502433091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-92045333165800444382008-11-25T07:40:00.000-08:002008-11-25T07:40:00.000-08:00I can confirm that Eclipse Aviation and Eclipse IR...I can confirm that Eclipse Aviation and Eclipse IRB Sunport (I believe the LLC associated with the industrial revenue bond) have filed BK today. Lots of filings.Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08301246864437379349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-69017839461060119912008-11-25T07:34:00.001-08:002008-11-25T07:34:00.001-08:00which point out an other side of problem :Cessna w...which point out an other side of problem :<BR/><BR/>Cessna with 100 Mustangs can afford to have Services Centers caring for the whole range of aircraft ...<BR/>(it just give a better profitability to S.C.)<BR/><BR/>EAC/Etirc , if they would have a S.C. in Euroland , what would the guys do all day long ? <BR/><BR/>sodomize mosquitoes ?<BR/>playing cards ?<BR/>chatting girls ?fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08144753596502433091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-38677995466483189102008-11-25T07:34:00.000-08:002008-11-25T07:34:00.000-08:00Finally, this issue has little bearing on the hurd...<I>Finally, this issue has little bearing on the hurdles EAC faces from now on... exciting times.</I><BR/><BR/>I think Eclipse does things with no concern for the long-term. Like I expect the latest AD will be traced back to when Eclipse did the FADEC patch to hit contractual targets, but with the aircraft not being able to operate to contract without the aircraft breaking down. I think there are many such things like this that Eclipse has done and it is bearing fruit now. I don't think the aircraft can accomplish its primary mission as a high utilization commercial aicraft because of what Eclipse has done. I think the aircraft is strictly for private pilots and we will see how good the aircraft is for that in the long-term or if more and more problems will crop up limiting that because of what Eclipse did.Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08301246864437379349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-67918458886501517002008-11-25T07:33:00.001-08:002008-11-25T07:33:00.001-08:00MAJOR NEWS ALERTTwo depositors have confirmed to m...<B>MAJOR NEWS ALERT</B><BR/><BR/>Two depositors have confirmed to me in the past few minutes that EAC have filed Chapter 11 in Delaware.<BR/><BR/>I'm going off to check this out, and suggest we all come back here within 30 minutes.<BR/><BR/>This, finally, may be 'it'...<BR/><BR/>Shane<BR/>15.32 GMT Tuesday 25th NovemberShane Pricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07181451780244241883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-73347075770607165392008-11-25T07:33:00.000-08:002008-11-25T07:33:00.000-08:00Apparently Eclipse just filed for Chapter 11.Apparently Eclipse just filed for Chapter 11.EclipsePilotOMSIVhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08963579637658363190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-45863817497539565422008-11-25T07:24:00.000-08:002008-11-25T07:24:00.000-08:00which is a very good indication of size of the Eur...which is a very good indication of size of the European Market compared to US market ...<BR/><BR/>Cessna already stated having more than 500 orders ...<BR/><BR/>so if it 100 for E.U.<BR/>and (guess !) 100 for others countries <BR/><BR/>it leaves 300 for the USA ...<BR/><BR/>which underline :<BR/><BR/>250 EA500 already "produced" (whatever that's mean ) <BR/>should mean FIFTY (50) for E.U. !<BR/><BR/>not a thousand , tens of thousands or whatever ...! ;-))fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08144753596502433091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-81891610326308058322008-11-25T07:18:00.000-08:002008-11-25T07:18:00.000-08:00billy :if we believe Eurocontrol (guys which are a...billy :<BR/><BR/>if we believe Eurocontrol (guys which are a "little more" professionals that Wedge and RP will ever be , even in dreams ...)<BR/><BR/>the Cessna Mustang is to be delivered in short excess of ONE hundred till 2010 !<BR/><BR/>this doesn't take account of the ones with Exotic matriculation ...<BR/><BR/>compare to EA500 = 0 !<BR/>(same reserve on matriculate as previous aircraft)fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08144753596502433091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-54965225141551948782008-11-25T07:10:00.000-08:002008-11-25T07:10:00.000-08:00"But if said agreement said that deposits become n..."But if said agreement said that deposits become non-refundable upon flight of a prototype with some stipulations of what a prototype is, and this flight met that stipulation, that that is it."<BR/><BR/>This is not what occured. They flew a "stunt", took deposits using an airframe and engine they could never certify or deliver, AND they knew it.<BR/><BR/>After they received the deposit money, the announced the <BR/>switcheroo.<BR/><BR/>Example: you pay a deposit for a lovely looking home outfitted with the latest in appliances and systems, tremendously integrated and fuel efficient and inexpensive... based on a promo package which includes all the prety pictures and the specs. The developer takes a deposit which is refundable, until he builds a model.<BR/><BR/>Developer discovers that the newfangled systems and appliances he sold and promoted in his brochuresdo not work properly and the supplier cannot deliver them, anyway. Disussions ensue regarding redesigning the home providing less living space, closet space, etc... in order to accomodate other appliances and systems. The efficiency is no longer as promoted, either, so the house will cost more to live in, for sure.<BR/><BR/>The developer does not disclose any of this, and proceeds to build a model and installs the only set of appliances and systems(prototypes) from the intially promoted suppleir, and shows the home.<BR/><BR/>The developer takes the deposit money... and then a few weeks later, states that all the appliances will be supplied by another manufacturer. Eventuall you learn the home will have less living space, and it will cost more to run, compared to the one you were sold.<BR/><BR/>I do not think this has anything to do with EASA or the attainment of AVIONG-1.5 cert. I've already stated congratualtions are in order. That's for sure.<BR/><BR/>I do thnk this is a major issue, and becasue EAC did such a great job of covering it up, does not mean there was no fraud.<BR/><BR/>I will state that if in fact things transpired as EAC states regarding WI... there was no fraud... just complete stupidity. One would have to believe EAC had no clue the engne had all the problems Vern just admitted to... and in good faith flew the WI powered EA-50 as if they intended to deliver that plane - then, somehow found out all the problems, and decided to switch just after receiving the deposit money.<BR/><BR/>I doubt it.<BR/><BR/>PS. there are I believe some lawsuits starting where EAC is being accused of misrepresentation... IIRC.<BR/><BR/>I think the industry need to be protected from this sort of dealing in the future... just my opinion.<BR/><BR/>Finally, this issue has little bearing on the hurdles EAC faces from now on... exciting times.airtaximanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12977944795556689805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-78827231554393243562008-11-25T07:03:00.000-08:002008-11-25T07:03:00.000-08:00EDT,I think, as Fred mentioned, that while EAC is ...EDT,<BR/>I think, as Fred mentioned, that while EAC is to be congratulated for EASA cert, the immediate benefit is a legitimate Press Release, and not much else.<BR/><BR/>The not much else, being counted on the fingers of both hands, at least for the next 12 months or so, I would speculate.<BR/><BR/>Fred,<BR/>An extra credit homework assignment:<BR/>If Cessna has had EASA cert for two years (or so), how many Mustangs are registered in Europe?<BR/>Thanks!<BR/>(as you mention, there might be a disproportionate higher number of Mustangs relative to potential EA-500's registrations, due to Cessna's established support network).<BR/>Thanks!bill e. goathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16258371211154585137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-17073729248828763292008-11-25T06:44:00.000-08:002008-11-25T06:44:00.000-08:00an other point :since CESSNA is a producer (they ...an other point :<BR/><BR/>since CESSNA is a producer (they do not rely ONLY on furnishers for parts) <BR/><BR/>they are Certified from the factory <BR/>(Process certifying)<BR/><BR/>Eac is an Assembler (they do not produce any of the part they use , so it is an Item cert.)<BR/><BR/>that's alone make a galaxy of difference ...<BR/><BR/>the Killing bullet : the place that eventually could have been fulfilled by Fpj ...<BR/><BR/>after such a long waiting are taken by Mustang ...<BR/><BR/>almost not more expensive (i still wonder what could be an eventual FINAL price for Fpj ? 3M$?3.5M$ ?) ... really delivered ... maintained on spot ! (where at this time , someone using a Fpj have to go to USA or take the risk of voiding warranty ..!)fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08144753596502433091noreply@blogger.com