tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post129478322818958569..comments2023-09-17T04:46:20.879-07:00Comments on Eclipse Aviation Critic NG: ECLIPSE AVIATION ANNOUNCES INNOVATIVE NON-DISCLOSURE AGREEMENTShane Pricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07181451780244241883noreply@blogger.comBlogger92125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-31263266013515674862008-05-22T16:55:00.000-07:002008-05-22T16:55:00.000-07:00Anyone notice that Controller now has 70 listings ...Anyone notice that Controller now has 70 listings for Eclipse's?BryanAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07212663100708401431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-45439980029880515652008-05-16T04:26:00.000-07:002008-05-16T04:26:00.000-07:00One of the great things about this blog is the kno...One of the great things about this blog is the knowledge that gets shared.<BR/><BR/>An experienced pilot, with some time on the FPJ was kind enough to communicate the following to me. You will gather that he is no spring chicken and has been around the block, once or twice.<BR/><BR/><I>In the free world as we know it, there is a good reason for type ratings on turbojet airplanes, of all sizes and weights.<BR/> <BR/>It has to do with systems and procedures. <BR/> <BR/>To the outsider, the Eclipse is just a shopping cart with jet engines attached. On the inside, it has nine computers that manage it. A pilot has to understand how these interface, and the emergency procedures that are specific to that plane.<BR/> <BR/>Each jet is a different animal compared to another one. The systems and procedures for each are unique.<BR/> <BR/>Prop driven planes up to 12,500 pounds don't require a type rating, The reason is that the systems and procedures are generic in nature. Above 12,500 pounds, the systems and procedures are getting to be unique to each plane.<BR/> <BR/>One has to remember that most of the FAA regulations are written as a response to past history, in order to prevent another repeat of history.<BR/> <BR/>I hope this further clarifies the type rating discussion that are mentioned in the recent postings.</I><BR/><BR/>Pretty clear summary I think. Much more important, it helps us to understand the topic.<BR/><BR/>Thanks, 'FPJ pilot' for your input.<BR/><BR/>ShaneShane Pricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06571348452899329376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-52020548794494826062008-05-16T03:38:00.000-07:002008-05-16T03:38:00.000-07:00Baron said:Just to climb on the soap box again... ...Baron said:<BR/>Just to climb on the soap box again... Why does a 4,500 lbs, 5 pax D-jet require ATP-standard type rating and a 12,500 lbs 10 pax BE200 does not?<BR/><BR/>I asked that question the other day, and was told that it has to do with the stated cabin pressurization and the stated altitude.<BR/><BR/>If that does not make sense it is not the fault of my "source", it is my fault for not understanding the question. I am not an aviation guy, just a humble toolie.chickasawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14045891705532327182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-38559588845309503142008-05-16T02:58:00.000-07:002008-05-16T02:58:00.000-07:00Baron,Just to climb on the soap box again... Why d...Baron,<BR/><BR/><I>Just to climb on the soap box again... Why does a 4,500 lbs, 5 pax D-jet require ATP-standard type rating and a 12,500 lbs 10 pax BE200 does not?</I><BR/><BR/>Because jets are 'fast' and 'dangerous' and props are 'slow' and 'safe'?<BR/><BR/>Because aircraft companies like it that way?<BR/><BR/>Because pilots like it that way?<BR/><BR/>Or finally, my own theory:-<BR/><BR/>Because the FAA are stupid?<BR/><BR/>What do you think?<BR/><BR/>Gunner,<BR/><BR/>Who said we would pay the ransom? Black Tulip and I were only THINKING about it.<BR/><BR/>Good news on the LT. Keep us updated when you can.<BR/><BR/>ShaneShane Pricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06571348452899329376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-39651901190073332812008-05-15T22:38:00.000-07:002008-05-15T22:38:00.000-07:00Flyger said... Do you have any evidence that short...<I>Flyger said... Do you have any evidence that short runways are a prime risk to light jets? </I><BR/><BR/>Well, the Eclipse, AFAIK, is the first twin fan-jet ertified in straight part 23 with no part 25 or part 23 commuter runway restrictions/information. It is also, by far, the most likely jet to be operated single pilot. So, we don't have evidence yet. But...<BR/><BR/>Me thinks that if we don't trust a professional part 135 2-pilot crew to go for anything less than 150% of the flight manual distance, to trust a single pilot to attempt a take-off at 100% of flight manual makes no sense. I simply like my regulations to make sense.<BR/><BR/>Just to climb on the soap box again... Why does a 4,500 lbs, 5 pax D-jet require ATP-standard type rating and a 12,500 lbs 10 pax BE200 does not?Baron95https://www.blogger.com/profile/01421355643916832199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-49207556383811225182008-05-15T22:32:00.000-07:002008-05-15T22:32:00.000-07:00Gunner said... The first two are set up for extre...<I>Gunner said... The first two are set up for extreme accuracy and will accompany me to a varmint hunt in July.</I><BR/><BR/>Ouch!!! You must have a king-size varmint problem or you really don't like to see much of the varmint left after shooting it.<BR/><BR/>I feed the squirels .17HMRs myself, but then again, we are in the wimpy Northeast ;)Baron95https://www.blogger.com/profile/01421355643916832199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-40371558674090550002008-05-15T20:18:00.000-07:002008-05-15T20:18:00.000-07:00Don't pay the ransom, guys. I'm back!Sorry for the...Don't pay the ransom, guys. <BR/>I'm back!<BR/><BR/>Sorry for the hiatus. Been off in the AZ desert assembling and testing four of the finest shoulder fired weapons I've ever seen:<BR/><BR/>- A custom Cooper Rifle in 5.56mm (this one is pure sex)<BR/>- A custom M4 variant, also in 5.56mm<BR/>- A Blaser convertible in .308 and .22LR<BR/>- A custom .300 Whisper, also on a AR platform<BR/><BR/>The first two are set up for extreme accuracy and will accompany me to a varmint hunt in July. The third is to be a dedicated deer stand piece, with .22 trainer for the off season. The last falls into the "because I can" category. ;-)<BR/><BR/>Things are moving forward nicely with Epic. Parts are flowing in and/or in fabrication. Our first visit in the build cycle is early next month, though I may not be able to attend due to family commitments. <BR/><BR/>Have heard nothing on the Eclipse Blogger Subpoena, but I might know more once I go thru 4 days of unanswered emails and phone calls.<BR/><BR/>Least y'all know my priorities have been in order!<BR/>GunnerRich Lucibellahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03317914081455082454noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-57164838859894826612008-05-15T18:57:00.000-07:002008-05-15T18:57:00.000-07:00"...including increasing the margins involved in c..."...including increasing the margins involved in calculating corrections for contaminated runways"<BR/><BR/>You mean in Europe they have icy and snow-covered runways,too? Who knew when they designed the airplane! And NOW somebody is asking exactly how do you stop the airplane? Never fear, Vern is in his basement reformulating the rubber used in the tires to prevent blow-outs from only moderate braking. When he finishes that he will start re-inventing "anti-skid" and "thrust reversers". Those darn Europeans, they sure keep the guy busy.airsafetymanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07923869957339462116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-72975005152251494442008-05-15T18:55:00.000-07:002008-05-15T18:55:00.000-07:00Check this out!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMYF...Check this out!<BR/><BR/>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMYFW4ExPeo<BR/><BR/>Talk about redefining the personal jet!metal guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13165643740993109067noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-89044902683331692752008-05-15T17:18:00.000-07:002008-05-15T17:18:00.000-07:00Gad:"These “users” are willing to fly an incomplet...Gad:<BR/>"These “users” are willing to fly an incomplete aircraft . . . something I do not understand."<BR/><BR/>willing is exactly the right word... I was going to say "what choice do they have? But I have my answer: How many are being flown? How many are being sold?"<BR/><BR/>Seriously, they will get zippo for their deposit money - so that's their choice.<BR/><BR/>Anyone wonder how much "deposit money" Dayjet lost in not taking more planes? If I were one of the poistion-holders, I'd be pissed if it wasn't a ton of cash. My hunch -zero.<BR/><BR/>he hype about 2700 orders backed by non-refundable deposits, with Dayjet couched as only 230 plus 70...now they lose nothing while everyone else bought into the FAT order book backed by deposits... c'mon.<BR/><BR/>Let me get this straight: Eclipse is based on huge demand and production volume, fortified by 2700 orders backed with deposits... until WAIT - Dayjet backs out and loses nothing?<BR/><BR/>C'mon.airtaximanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12977944795556689805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-15294045080092420802008-05-15T15:59:00.000-07:002008-05-15T15:59:00.000-07:00ChickasawAnd you promised yo mama that you would l...Chickasaw<BR/><BR/>And you promised yo mama that you would lay off the “peyote”.<BR/><BR/>Up in Stockholm, they use “Smell Check” . . . after a winter of “Lutefisk”, it’s no wonder they have a “Syndrome”.<BR/><BR/>Actually, it’s all Greek to me!<BR/><BR/>In business: When your outgo exceeds your income, the upkeep will be your downfall.<BR/><BR/>In aviation: When the touchdown exceeds the runway . . . nothing else much matters.<BR/><BR/>Safety is dependent on many things. The designer/manufacturer is primarily responsible . . . and yet the user is also responsible.<BR/><BR/>In this case, it is my impression that we have some “users” that wish to believe only the “best” of what they have been told . . . and do not want to hear the “technical” issues. These “users” are willing to fly an incomplete aircraft . . . something I do not understand.<BR/><BR/>The designer/manufacturer seems more interested in “numbers” than supplying a complete and safe aircraft to the customer . . . again, something I do not understand.<BR/><BR/>Actually, I do understand both sides . . . but it still remains a mystery.<BR/><BR/>gadfly<BR/><BR/>(And to the efficiency experts: A bicycle on the freeway in Lane #1 is far more efficient than anything else on the road . . . ‘wish to guess who is most likely to get home safe?)gadflyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13191372920897029941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-25955697586405745622008-05-15T15:10:00.000-07:002008-05-15T15:10:00.000-07:00airtaximan said...a 2,000 # thrust engine will be ...airtaximan said...<BR/><BR/><I>a 2,000 # thrust engine will be more fuel efficient than two 1,000 # engines.<BR/><BR/> - perhaps not when buried inside the plane with inlet losses?<BR/><BR/> Just a hunch.</I><BR/><BR/>Bingo.<BR/><BR/>Also, a 2,000# engine throttled back is very inefficient. So as you slow down in LRC, your mileage doesn't improve very much even though the airplane is getting less draggy.<BR/><BR/>The only real efficiency gain is flying higher. Darn, they can't do that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-3029541564399733162008-05-15T15:06:00.000-07:002008-05-15T15:06:00.000-07:00baron95 said...On Eclipse, we are slowly getting o...baron95 said...<BR/><BR/><I>On Eclipse, we are slowly getting out of that range by next month there should be 200 flying including the high(er) utilization DayJet fleet.</I><BR/><BR/>I don't think the DJ fleet is that much above the average owner. They mothballed 16 of the planes, and the remaining 12 get about 8 hours/week. So using DJ as a "high utilization" example is weak, they are averaging about 180 hours/year, well within range of typical private owners.<BR/><BR/><I>In addition, FAA should mandate part 91 runway requirements to be 150% of flight manual minimums</I><BR/><BR/>Do you have any evidence that short runways are a prime risk to light jets?<BR/><BR/><I>Do those two things and ZERO fan-jet hull losses is achievable or at least we can make Hull losses rare.</I><BR/><BR/>Runway issues are way down on the list of problems light jets have. I'm surprised at your regulatory zealousness with so little basis.<BR/><BR/><I>I refuse to accept that hull losses or fatal accidents are innevitable in $1.5M+ fan-jets. That should be the industry goal - ZERO. Anything less in unacceptable.</I><BR/><BR/>Risk is inherent in the activity. You will be disappointed eventually. A 100% safety goal can only be achieved by grounding the fleet.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-7351430418366772092008-05-15T14:06:00.000-07:002008-05-15T14:06:00.000-07:00cold wet,I think throwing around old Greek phrases...cold wet,<BR/><BR/>I think throwing around old Greek phrases earns you the right to tweak Gadfly and ignore spell check.<BR/><BR/>If Gunner was kidnapped and he comes back singing the praises of the Tool and advising investment in FPJ, we can then assume that has "Stockholm Syndrome".chickasawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14045891705532327182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-53344091238865535902008-05-15T13:25:00.000-07:002008-05-15T13:25:00.000-07:00I would never go so far as to speak for our friend...I would never go so far as to speak for our friend Gunner but I can think of a phrase that pretty well sums up his approach to this whole thing (mine as well):<BR/><BR/>Molon Labe!ColdWetMackarelofRealityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15946506673589233990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-33308004432251247702008-05-15T12:44:00.000-07:002008-05-15T12:44:00.000-07:00Black Tulip,Gunner has got to be worth a dollar.No...Black Tulip,<BR/><BR/>Gunner has got to be worth a dollar.<BR/><BR/>No, that's not fair. Let's make it a Euro.<BR/><BR/>On the other hand, Vern will demand 60% of the ransom up front and then will delay delivery until he has finished FIKI and possibly even EASA certification.<BR/><BR/>We might never see Gunner again...<BR/><BR/>Hell, how about we go the whole hog. Let's bribe Vern with Rubles. Hang on, no point. Someone else has tried and failed with that one already.<BR/><BR/>Gunner, sorry pal, it looks bad from here....<BR/><BR/>ShaneShane Pricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06571348452899329376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-55742097699763354512008-05-15T12:31:00.000-07:002008-05-15T12:31:00.000-07:00BT,I take solace in the fact that he can't be far....BT,<BR/><BR/>I take solace in the fact that he can't be far.<BR/><BR/>;)airtaximanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12977944795556689805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-56166270218764066912008-05-15T10:35:00.000-07:002008-05-15T10:35:00.000-07:00What if Gunner were blindfolded, hogtied, hustled ...What if Gunner were blindfolded, hogtied, hustled into the back of an Eclipse 500, flown to a secret location and held for ransom before the blog. Shane, how much money could we raise to free him from the Dark Side?<BR/><BR/>(In spite of this rhetorical question, I know Gunner is alive and well and will be tuning back in soon.)Black Tuliphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04657938226341343450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-39327578680950210512008-05-15T09:54:00.000-07:002008-05-15T09:54:00.000-07:00shane,bad western humor...I was thinking perhaps G...shane,<BR/><BR/>bad western humor...<BR/><BR/>I was thinking perhaps Gunner's been disappeared... you know, tampered with..rubbed out...had a little talking to...<BR/><BR/>kidding of course<BR/><BR/>- I hope he's building his EPICairtaximanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12977944795556689805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-50806324504013051422008-05-15T09:32:00.000-07:002008-05-15T09:32:00.000-07:00Black Tulip,I sometimes think that Vern is a Roman...Black Tulip,<BR/><BR/>I sometimes think that Vern is a Roman general as in, Veni, Vidi, Vici.<BR/><BR/>Without, of course, the 'Vici' bit.<BR/><BR/>I prefer to think in mixed metaphors, so for Vern it would be 'Veni, Vidi, Vamoos'<BR/><BR/>ATman,<BR/><BR/>Worry not. Most likely outcome of today is for the judge to set a trial date, not any real 'result' one way or the other. Gunner will check in later, I'm sure.<BR/><BR/>Flightcentre,<BR/><BR/>Pretty sure the EASA cert is not for 2008. Everything I'm hearing indicates that true Europeans are not at all impressed with the FPJ. Also, unlike New Mexico, no politicians here stand to gain in any way from a quick turnaround of Vern's application.<BR/><BR/>Vern has few friends at the high table in Europe...<BR/><BR/>ShaneShane Pricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06571348452899329376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-25753827401387484672008-05-15T06:55:00.000-07:002008-05-15T06:55:00.000-07:00I'm a little concerned... since the motion to quas...I'm a little concerned... since the motion to quash was filed... <BR/><BR/>no word from Gunner...<BR/><BR/>I think everyone on the hit list should check in every few days... just to make sure!!!<BR/><BR/>PS. where's whytech?airtaximanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12977944795556689805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-48890518080908152682008-05-15T06:53:00.000-07:002008-05-15T06:53:00.000-07:00In January, Vern said Eclipse would "certainly" ac...In January, Vern said Eclipse would "certainly" achieve EASA certification by the end of Q208. <BR/><BR/>Now, Vern says he "hopes" to achieve EASA certification by the end of Q308. <BR/><BR/>This amounts to a pushout accompanied by a downgrade in the firm's assessment of its probability of meeting the new target date. <BR/><BR/>EASA's Hatton says - <BR/><BR/>"consideration must be given to the time taken to lose altitude in the event of sudden loss of cabin pressure, especially since the aircraft does not have spoilers."<BR/><BR/>"the requirement for sufficient back-up electrical power for the sophisticated integrated avionics fit. Hatton also points out that extensive avionics integration also introduces the need for tougher checks on software and hardware integrity than would be required for systems comprised of independent instruments"<BR/><BR/>"there will be more-stringent performance standards required of air taxi operators, with higher margins required for take-off and landing distances, including increasing the margins involved in calculating corrections for contaminated runways"<BR/><BR/>The back-up power requirement is going to be harder to meet now that Eclipse has substituted Garmin 400Ws with higher power requirements compared to the previous plan of using an integrated GPS card. <BR/><BR/>This has the potential of driving a need for larger (and heavier) batteries. The 400Ws will also weigh more than the GPS card and keyboards they replace. <BR/><BR/>On the other hand, the Garmin 400Ws may help relieve some of EASA's concerns regarding the integrated nature of AvioNG. <BR/><BR/>Given that the 400Ws make material changes to EASA's overall evaluation, the EASA approval process will most likely be based on FAA approved data. Once that data is available, the review process typically takes an additional 3 to 6 months. <BR/><BR/>When Eclipse announced the 400Ws in April, it set expectations for a summer 08 FAA cert. <BR/><BR/>Add 3 to 6 months from that point for EASA approvals and you can see why the probability of a Q3 EASA cert is quite low. One can always "hope".FlightCenterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01230368532659360386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-58454785951983716702008-05-15T06:15:00.000-07:002008-05-15T06:15:00.000-07:00a 2,000 # thrust engine will be more fuel efficien...a 2,000 # thrust engine will be more fuel efficient than two 1,000 # engines.<BR/><BR/>- perhaps not when buried inside the plane with inlet losses?<BR/><BR/>Just a hunch.airtaximanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12977944795556689805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-33786120534965138722008-05-15T04:46:00.000-07:002008-05-15T04:46:00.000-07:00BT -I thought that was Gustatus Similis Pullus.Wou...BT -<BR/><BR/>I thought that was <A HREF="http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/03/31/science/01patch_slide02.jpg" REL="nofollow"><I>Gustatus</I> Similis Pullus</A>.<BR/><BR/>Would you like McNugget sauce?<BR/>IANALPawnShophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07091676046998796061noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3817101653623448889.post-36917498040350280572008-05-15T03:45:00.000-07:002008-05-15T03:45:00.000-07:00Shane,Thank you for the Latin lesson. I'd like to...Shane,<BR/><BR/>Thank you for the Latin lesson. I'd like to add one of my favorite phrases,<BR/><BR/>G.S.P.<BR/><BR/>Gustibus Similis Pullis<BR/><BR/>"Tastes Like Chicken"Black Tuliphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04657938226341343450noreply@blogger.com